SW:TOR, or: Why MMOs bug the fuck out of me Options
Rikaelus
#1 Posted: : Saturday, November 24, 2012 6:44:02 PM
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Well, SW:TOR has a F2P model now so I thought I'd check it out.

Let me start by explaining my position and why I generally dislike most MMOs.

I started online RPGing with MUDs. They were text based games that generally didn't have any kind of quests and inherently had no story lines. They were just a bunch of rooms with descriptions. The stories were made by the players, for all the players to experience. When the world changed it changed for everyone. It was a true communal gaming experience where everyone could experience everything at the same time, together.

Enter MMOs and my judgment scales.


The two flavors of quests:

1. Repeatable: Wolves breed so logically you can continually have quests to kill them and logs burn so you can continually collect more firewood. Repetition. That's life. It's boring but realistic and consistent. And you typically don't have to suspend disbelief too far for it to work.

2. One-time: You kill someone specific. Of course lore might allow for the notion of resurrection so the same person really can be killed many times, but you get the point.

So consider those two things the end points on a Scale A.


World availability:

1. Open: You can go anywhere, anytime. You might get your ass slapped halfway across the world if you wonder into a high level area, but you can go there if you want.

2. Unlocked: Areas become available only as you level or complete story line missions.

Opposite points on Scale B.


And finally story/mission focus:

1. Everyone: Story progression is experienced by everyone at once.

2. Individual: Story progression is experienced individually as the player progresses.

Opposite points on Scale C.


Theory:

The 1's: These lend themselves to a single-player experience where the player is guided along a pre-determined path and have limited mobility outside of it. Mass Effect and Dragon Age would be on this side of the scales, though to their credit they both give some flexibility in secondary/optional missions.

The 2's: These lend themselves to open world sandbox play. Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3/NV would be examples of this taken far in the single-player games, EVE Online would be an example in the MMO realm.


Setting the comparison point: World of Warcraft
(lower rating = leaning towards the "1" side of the scale)
(higher rating = leaning towards the "2" side of the scale)

WoW started out with a pretty balanced approach.
A Scale Rating: 6. A few "kill this" and "collect that" quests, but the key story quests are almost all one-time objectives.
B Scale Rating: 2. With the exception of dungeon instances, the world is almost completely open from the get-go.
C Scale Rating: 8. With the notable exception of the opening of the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj and Cataclysm, story progression has been almost exclusively individualized.

Ultimately WoW balances out at about a 5 on an aggregate scale.
It's changed a little bit since Wrath of the Lich King when they began introducing phasing. That bumps both B and C up a little bit.


Benchmarking EVE Online
A Scale Rating: 1. In my time playing it I experienced only repeatable-type missions.
B Scale Rating: 1. You can fly anywhere you want, right away. Good luck not getting slaughtered, though.
C Scale Rating: 2. You can choose to be handed off to different handlers as you become more capable. Otherwise the story line progresses through expansions for everyone at once.

Rounded off that's a 1 aggregate rating--the truest modern example of MUD principles put into an MMO.

(the above is based on about 8 months of casually playing, so might not be that accurate)


Finally, Star Wars: The Old Republic
A Scale Rating: 8. A few logically repeatable missions but effectively everything is one-time.
B Scale Rating: 8. Some areas are class-only. You can't leave the starting area until you finish your story line there. The world supposedly opens up once you get your own ship. All in all, your access to the universe is very limited by other factors.
C Scale Rating: 10. Everything is individualized. You have to progress through your story line even to unlock secondary missions.

That's a rounded aggregate rating of 9.

What does that mean? Well. It's not a bad game by any means. The story lines are engaging and fun, but...

It's a horrible, horrible MMO. There's practically no reason for it to be an MMO. It's a few single-player games smashed together into a common world that yields almost no benefit of having other players around save for killing a handful of world bosses, an auction house, and the artificial "social points" system they seemed to introduce just to give people a reason to group together. And of course a crude chat room that's barely usable unless you give EA money.

To get into some examples... (spoiled alert)

Story Missions. There are a handful of these in each zone I've seen. They're instances you go into seamlessly but by default you can only go into them alone. If you're in a group, others will either go into their own solo version or not at all if there's a class restriction. Through preferences you can allow others to come into your Story Mission instances with you, but only you will get credit for completing the objectives. If other people in your group need to accomplish the same thing, you need to do it all over again for them. Very, very individualized which can be great for your story, but that's what single-player games are for.

You're the Hero! Who doesn't like being the hero? The exception to the rules? The story line for every Jedi has them unusually strong in the Force. One class walks away from the starting zone with a unique, ancient weapon hilt. The Trooper walks away wronged but now in charge of an elite squad. Great individualized story lines but continuity breaks down a bit when they all sit down in a cantina and compare stories.

Companions. As you progress through your story line you get companions, based on your class. They're established already with names, personalities, likes, and dislikes. Some can be romanced and even married. You can have one following you around at any given time. This is nothing new from a RPG perspective but... in an MMO? I know Guild Wars had them, too, but AFAIK other people wouldn't see them. Games like STO have companions but they're completely customizable. Go to Coruscant and every sub-level-15 Jedi Knight is going around with the very same R2 unit. World consistency and continuity be damned.

And marrying your companions? Why? This is an MMO. It's multiplayer. If you want your toon to get hitched, work it out with another player and have your toon marry theirs. Or just write it into your backstory if you want to tell other people.

Okay, okay... but is the single-player at least worth the cost?

If you can deal with the horrific limits imposed on F2P players, yes. If you spend $5 on your account you at least get Preferred status which lets you do a bit more, but generally not having a subscription is pretty painful.

As for a subscription, my advice is this:
Consider this 2-3 single player games smashed into one. True, there are 8 classes with individualized stories, but the stories are told across the same worlds with many of the same enemies and same secondary missions. For example, the two Jedi classes start on the same world, and the Smuggler and Trooper start on the same world. After that they all end up on Coruscant. What happens after that I'm not yet sure, but there's clearly a limited number of areas per faction. Even WoW had 3 starter areas per faction at release and then you weren't necessarily glued to them; a Night Elf could travel to an Azeroth starting area if they wanted--a flexibility TOR doesn't have.

I have a subscription. I wanted more than 2 toons on the server and I didn't want to deal with multiple accounts (which has other drawbacks besides inconvenience). So I got a subscription in order to have 12 toons per server. I've given myself the hard limit of 10 months playing. That's $150-about what I'd pay for 3 single-player games. The goal is to experience all the classes in that time, then call it quits or go back to a F2P account for more casual gaming.

Because this game is NOT an MMO. And in no way, shape, or form, will I reward EA with money for sticking a single-player game into an MMO format just to extort MMO-like fees.


P.S. I don't expect many people to read this but meh... been wanting to write it for a week now.

Rikaelus
#2 Posted: : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 2:37:00 PM
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Follow-up: I think I'm already bored of it.
Which is amazing since I played WoW for years and it's much the same feel mechanics-wise.

I think it's simply because the game plays so much like a story driven single-player game. The problem with that is this: it's MMO slowness. I'm level 30 (of 50) and I'm not even half-way through Chapter 1 (of 3+prologue) of my story line.

If I'm playing a game for the story I don't want it to take longer than it takes me to read a novel. And I could have read 2 novels by now. When I'm playing a game to experience the story I'll usually even set it to the easiest difficulty level just so I can get through it quick, then I up the difficulty for subsequent play-throughs that are more about seeking a challenge. But of course... you can't set an MMO on "Very Easy".

So if this is where EA and other publishers want to take gaming, FML. I want my fucking single player games and my MMOs to be different for a reason.

The only thing I'm tempted to log into TOR to do are my space combat dailies. Even though those are relatively gimpy compared to the old X-Wing games, at least there's some level of amusement still to be found.

Cantrip
#3 Posted: : Wednesday, December 05, 2012 11:23:28 PM
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Okay, wow. -As in an audible exclamation.

I saw the MMO designation and didn't read this the first time around. Just read it.

Wow.

Pretty detailed treatment of this topic. I found myself saying "yep" and "yeah" a lot. All valid points and spot on in the analysis.

I can see why you had to write this. You certainly have been thinking about it quite a bit.

Might I suggest you take up drinking to calm you uneasy mind?

Do I detect a little hint of (the Bible verse) Proverbs 21:9 perhaps?

Good writing job!

You should be more like Cantrip.



Twitchy: "I pulled a Cantrip . . ."
GivePeaceAChance: "If the Tempest had nipples, I'd pinch that shit."
Xylicon: "I'm about to deliver my [Richard] in your face for posting that stupid shit. "
WDF?: "He keeps reaming me... night after night... I'm rather sore."
GivePeaceAChance: "OMG MY NIPS ARE HARD"
llenta: "cantrip, you fail!!!"
Filliam H. Muffman: "i'm on top of dick"
Rikaelus
#4 Posted: : Thursday, December 06, 2012 12:40:38 PM
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Cantrip wrote:
Okay, wow. -As in an audible exclamation.

I saw the MMO designation and didn't read this the first time around. Just read it.

Wow.

Pretty detailed treatment of this topic. I found myself saying "yep" and "yeah" a lot. All valid points and spot on in the analysis.

I can see why you had to write this. You certainly have been thinking about it quite a bit.

Might I suggest you take up drinking to calm you uneasy mind?

Do I detect a little hint of (the Bible verse) Proverbs 21:9 perhaps?

Good writing job!



Hehe, thanks. I had to vent but trying to explain my perspective on MMOs has always been a challenge. This is probably my best attempt yet and it seems it was understandable, so that's good.

I know I can be a bit extreme and analytical when it comes to this. For many years WoW was my creative outlet through RP. That made me very sensitive to how game mechanics and design affected my characters' ability to interact with others' characters in-character.

While that's the most personal aspect, I'm also really worried that we're on the cusp of seeing a big change in how we game. These companies are out to make money (especially EA) and they know they can make a lot more money off long-duration subscriptions than they can off of conventionally one-time purchased games.

But even if they don't go that far; if they only require single-player games to "authenticate" with centralized servers, they'll have the players by the balls. At any time they can choose to take those servers down as a means to push them to buying the latest and greatest sequel.

When I pay $50-$60 for what should be a single-player game I can play for the rest of my life, I don't want the developer to have a kill switch. That's a big F-U to consumers, but it's happening so gradually I don't think they see it happening. Diablo3 apparently has something like that. SimCity5 is going to have something like that. I refuse to buy either.

Sadly this isn't even limited to the gaming world.

I've been buying e-books and MP3s off Amazon for a few months now. We're thinking about getting a family Kindle so I thought about stopping my Blu-Ray collection and just go with Amazon Instant Video. Then I realized that, if you play by the Terms of Use, your Amazon account (which all this media is tied to) is your account and only yours. When you die, it goes *poof*. Your entire media collection goes *poof*. I'd be spending the same amount of money to buy HD movies as I do Blu-Rays, but they'd never be passed on to my wife or child when I die. Just.... *poof*... requiring them to buy their favorite movies all over again.

The world... she be a'change'n.

Rikaelus
#5 Posted: : Saturday, December 08, 2012 11:29:31 AM
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Cancelled my TOR subscription today. In the interest of constructive criticism, this was the feedback I gave (in 2000 characters or less):

Quote:
On the scale between a communal gaming experience and a single-player experience, TOR definitely favors the latter.

For that reason I got a subscription giving myself a 10 month hard limit. With all the common areas and secondary missions, I summed the TOR experience up to being the same as 3-4 single player games w/ multiplayer support on the side. So I saw no reason to spend more money on it than I would that many single-player games.

I figured I'd play as many classes and experience as many story lines as I could in that time, but then something else happened...

I got bored.

It took me as long to get to level 30 and not even half-way through my first character's story line as it would reading 1-2 novels. When experiencing the story line is my goal in other games I'll usually save/load strategically, set it the lowest difficulty level, and plow through the game play. Sometimes I'll even use God mode. None of those mechanics are an option in MMO mechanics which means the story was told--relatively speaking--very slowly.

Too slowly.

As interested as I was in my character's story line, the telling of it just dragged out for too long. I no longer feel the desire to log in and to continue pursuing it and thus can't justify the subscription cost.

Further, this has me running to the other extreme side of that scale: EVE Online. I'm giving that MMO another shot. It has, IMO, the truest MMO mechanics and RP potential because, hey... roleplaying just means playing the role of someone else. That someone else doesn't always have to be the hero. Sometimes it's just a laborer doing their small part. I just wish EVE's GUI was more intuitive.

But I digress...

To comment briefly on the space combat...
That remained a fun component to the end but I was initially saddened that it was a "ship on rails" with no other players. As a fan of the old X-Wing series I was a bit offended it wasn't more open. If you don't trust us to actually pilot, just stick us in a turret.


The interesting thing is, it lets you also select the reason from a dropdown.

One of the options is that the game is a very single-player experience that doesn't fit in an MMO. That summed up my key issue with it, so either they predicted that as a problem for some people, or a lot of people have given feedback to that end. Either way, I don't feel alone.

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