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Rank: Administration
Groups: Administration, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 188
Points: 189
Location: Canada
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This really sucks. I just noticed that the number of kills needed to get normal points is now just 500. It used to be 1000 (like a day ago). And I'm almost positive that when I started playing, it was 1500.
Why this sucks: because now there's going to be HUGE numbers of noobs claiming 50 points from just a small number of highly frequent players. And because now, because if this, it's going to be a lot easier and a lot faster for good players to rack up points quicker, than those of us that had to slug it out for 1500 kills.
[I had initially posted a huge list of suggestions and ideas on how to make hlstatsx better, but I realized what I had come up with is WAAAY better than how hlstatsx works, so I've decided not to post it.]
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, {pDs} Member
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Posts: 419
Points: 649
Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
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Sunfox wrote:
This really sucks. I just noticed that the number of kills needed to get normal points is now just 500. It used to be 1000 (like a day ago). And I'm almost positive that when I started playing, it was 1500.
Why this sucks: because now there's going to be HUGE numbers of noobs claiming 50 points from just a small number of highly frequent players. And because now, because if this, it's going to be a lot easier and a lot faster for good players to rack up points quicker, than those of us that had to slug it out for 1500 kills.
[I had initially posted a huge list of suggestions and ideas on how to make hlstatsx better, but I realized what I had come up with is WAAAY better than how hlstatsx works, so I've decided not to post it.]
welcome to my world, where every death leads to double-digit loss of points, lol. :D McCheese wrote:I've always said all women are 2 drinks away from full on lesbian action Lead Salad wrote:I never figured whut for a fairy..wait, yes, yes I did. Snipme wrote:erk cant have me my penis will annilihate his ass hole
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Rank: The Illuminist
Groups: Administration
Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,410
Points: 2,875
Location: Seattle
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Yeah, stats... the great divider. It was lowered due to the severe lack of population in the servers. 1000 kills for new players really doesn't seem reachable. I've spoken to a few players who can't play often, and it was really over the top. It made sense when we were bumping non-stop, but lately it's been so low. And really, after 500 kills, they aren't really noobs anymore. They've played the servers a few times.
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Rank: Administration
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Joined: 6/7/2006
Posts: 188
Points: 189
Location: Canada
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I know points mean nothing and are just a number, not an indication of anything except general progress/playing time. And when you're in 5,000th place, they really do mean nothing. But it was enjoyable to watch them go up slowly, ever increasing. And now I've made it to #17 along with a lot of much better players.
However I just got back from my first-ever game of Goldrush where I had negative points at the end. It didn't matter if I had a 4:1 kill ratio, won the rounds, etc, nothing outweighed the loss of points from players collecting 50 points for each and every kill hand over fist. It was fun to watch them go up. It is not going to be nearly as enjoyable to watch them go down.
I suspect that because of this change there is going to be a re-leveling. Noob players take points from long-time players until everyone reaches a sort of balance point. Hopefully there IS a balance point where some positive progress can be made again, and that general player turnover doesn't keep dropping the bar lower and lower.
Yes, I will chant "points mean nothing", "points mean nothing", but the fact is they ARE there and they DO mean something to the person gaining or giving them away. It's psycological. And hlstatsx's scoring system is patently flawed in that total accumilated points work into the calculations so heavily.
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Rank: Administration
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Joined: 11/6/2007
Posts: 987
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At the risk of sending Whut crying into a corner at my revisiting this issue, I've noticed something about the way the point system is going -- it creates a nearly impossible hurdle for people to climb past a certain point. Though I don't know if HLstatsX can even implement it, some kind of point decay whereby players with scores in the multiple hundreds of thousands don't just need to log in once a month and retain an almost insurmountable lead over anyone else would be good. I say this as someone who doesn't give a flying crap about his ranking, but just observes that it would be very hard for any normal player to reach three hundred and eighty thousand points, EVER much less by the time TF3 comes out. You can see what I'm talking about by looking at this graph of our top 300 players' points/rankings (as of today): 
Obviously, this tells us that our core base of players is around 80 or so people, but it also illustrates the insanity of the upper bracket, for whom a 50 point loss becomes no real impediment. By Rank 7, you're already at 23% less than the top score, and Rank 17 is less than HALF of Rank 1!! That means anyone already in the tail end of the Top 20 would need to gain between 120,000 and 200,000 points just to catch up. Someone just starting to play on our servers today would easily be in the Top 50, almost into the Top 20, for the same work.
The easiest way to fix it would be to remove entirely the cap on point loss, but that reintroduces behavior shaping problems we talked about to death way back in the day. Someone like Ducktor BBQ would easily lose THOUSANDS of points in a single death to someone just passing the minimum kill #, meaning he'd either cut back on playing, dramatically alter the way he plays so he dies less, and likely be very frustrated in the process (you thought you were ticked when you lost just 50 points!). That said, I think it's completely possible that some players could (and looking at the rankings, definitely are) creating a monstrous point buffer that no number of 50-point-loss deaths can ever substantially diminish. Like I said, in the end it doesn't bother me a great deal anymore, and if people are generally happy with the way things are, then that's great. But I think that back in the day, if we had had no cap on point loss, overall scores would be much lower and some people would experience frustration at losing a bunch of points, but the ranking would be a fluid expression of both time played and skill. Ed The Wolf actually got a congratulatory news post when he topped Daniel for the first place slot. But I worry that we are quickly approaching a point where no one will ever be able to practically take that spot from someone, and certainly someone below the Top 20 would have no hope whatsoever. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
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Rank: The Illuminist
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Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,410
Points: 2,875
Location: Seattle
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I was thinking increase max loss to 100.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/4/2008
Posts: 409
Points: 96
Location: Quebec
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why dont you just whipe the points monthly ? but with no " kills needed for regular points " whipe this means that when you get your 500 kills you keep it forever...but once a month...your points = 0 i beleive this would be a nice idea to get ppl on our servers and to be active, by exemple, we could give a reserved slot for the " hot player of the month ".....this is just an exemple
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Rank: Polio Power!
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/18/2007
Posts: 631
Points: 18
Location: $4n74 cruz, c4
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no one is allowed to wipe the points until i defeat the duktor MakeSureItsCharcoalGrilled wrote:
yes. please go fuck yoruself and die.
MakeSureItsCharcoalGrilled wrote:
it's ok. all computer components have clearly dotted lines along which you can cut* to make smaller.
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Rank: The Illuminist
Groups: Administration
Joined: 5/8/2006
Posts: 8,410
Points: 2,875
Location: Seattle
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I think I missed my window to purge points monthly. People have worked too hard to get where they're at now and I think it would only cause pain on my end listening to the hate mail... I'd have to buy a gun. There is no perfect solution and everyone will always hate something. I can't please everyone. I'm trying to open it up to a less exclusive lot. Every time we make a drastic change to the stats this happens. However, it equalizes after a week or so. You're losing massive points now, but those noobs won't be noobs forever, and soon the playing field will level.
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Rank: Administration
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WDF? wrote:Every time we make a drastic change to the stats this happens. However, it equalizes after a week or so. You're losing massive points now, but those noobs won't be noobs forever, and soon the playing field will level. And that was the point I was trying to make with the idea of lifting the cap on point loss entirely. It would suck incredi-balls for the top people for a little while, as lower ranked people tore them a new asshole, but after some amount of time, the point loss would reflect the amount you're dying and who you're dying to, and as Whut said, it would all even out. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, {pDs} Member
Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 419
Points: 649
Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
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hax.sam.hall wrote:no one is allowed to wipe the points until i defeat the duktor I didn't pass daniel and ed just to lose to the likes of you! EN GARDE! McCheese wrote:I've always said all women are 2 drinks away from full on lesbian action Lead Salad wrote:I never figured whut for a fairy..wait, yes, yes I did. Snipme wrote:erk cant have me my penis will annilihate his ass hole
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, {pDs} Member
Joined: 6/24/2008
Posts: 419
Points: 649
Location: Eden Prairie, Minnesota
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By the way, there is a way to horde points ala Ed the Wolf, Saber, Frags... Medics, the unloved, underappreciated backbone of any successful team gain gobs of points (5 for an assist or an ubercharge) vs (1 point for every kill I get). We need more medics anyways, so get good at medic! They are hard to come by, since half of medics only focus on 1 person like a heavy or they DON'T HEAL OTHER MEDICS (sorry, reliving bad moments). Also, don't die... That's the hardest trick to master but I think that's how daniel, pigeon, snob etc. got where they are today. :D McCheese wrote:I've always said all women are 2 drinks away from full on lesbian action Lead Salad wrote:I never figured whut for a fairy..wait, yes, yes I did. Snipme wrote:erk cant have me my penis will annilihate his ass hole
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 5/9/2006
Posts: 274
Points: 0
Location: Colorado
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WDF? wrote:Yeah, stats... the great divider.
It was lowered due to the severe lack of population in the servers. 1000 kills for new players really doesn't seem reachable. I've spoken to a few players who can't play often, and it was really over the top. It made sense when we were bumping non-stop, but lately it's been so low.
And really, after 500 kills, they aren't really noobs anymore. They've played the servers a few times.
True wisdom and capitalistic thinking...
PS... while I was away... did Google Ads shoot us down due to content?...
PPS... I'm a happy noob (aka newb)
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Rank: The Illuminist
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We are adsense blacklisted because they accused us of fabricating clicks of the links. We cannot appeal.
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