Poll Question : Do you support the death penalty?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes. 9 64 %
No. 5 35 %

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Death Penalty: Convince me! Options
endyss
#1 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 9:40:29 AM
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I'm interested in some well-reasoned arguments for or against the death penalty, as it's an issue on which I could be convinced either way. Arguments tailored to my libertarian sensibilities would probably be the most effective.

Not that I can do anything to stop it, but I'm not looking for anything related to the election or political parties/candidates, or snarky one-liner comments. I'm really interested in thoughtful reasoning for or against the death penalty, and this site seems to have a good balance of viewpoints. I'm pretty set and comfortable with my views on most issues, but this isn't one of them.

As a side note, I generally lean in favor of allowing states to enact criminal penalties that the people support, including the death penalty, but I'm interested in arguments on why someone should or shouldn't support the practice in the first place.



HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Gunslinger
#2 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 9:56:39 AM
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it's like Kinky Friedman said

"I'm not anti-execution, but a I am anti-wrong-person-being-executed."
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

RichardAwesome
#3 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 11:31:33 AM
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A just society needs clear boundaries for behavior.  Keeping the death penalty available for the severe crimes in our society provides a necessary deterrent. 

I actually believe when the death penalty is given, it doesn't happen fast enough and actually works against its deterrent possibilities when someone is on death row for 20 years.
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#4 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 11:41:22 AM
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My position on the death penalty is a little muddled, but generally:

1) I don't really trust the government to kill people. It's the ultimate violation of liberty, so if they're going to do it they better get that shit right
2) The death penalty is racist (largely as a byproduct of how fucked up the justice system in general is)
3) The death penalty either has no or a limited effect on crime reduction (depending on which study you look at)
4) The death penalty costs more money than life in prison
5) Some fuckers really do deserve to die

I do not support the death penalty, but I would if:

1) The death penalty has to be carried out by the jury (e.g. they all had to flip a switch to kill the person)
2) The mechanism of death is not cruel (why the fuck do they shoot them up with potassium? OD them on fentanyl or something similar)
3) All executions have to be broadcast live on TV during primetime (preferably in a reality TV format where they do little bios on everyone involved and a recap of the trial)
4) The money generated from advertising during the executions would be used to fund the death penalty system
5) Anyone involved in a death penalty case found to have fucked up (e.g. witness lying, prosecutor witholding evidence, whatever) gets charged with murder (or attempted murder if the execution hasn't happened yet).
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


PissedOffMonkey
#5 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 12:50:35 PM
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Some of these things were already mentioned by DCMH, but these are my thoughts:

Most of the people executed seem to have mental issues of some sort.  Society prefers to not have people with issues that may have caused them to murder others.  Those on death row likely didn't worry about the consequences of their actions beforehand.  Therefore, the deterrent aspect of capital punishment seems useless.

Relatives of the victims generally want revenge.  Closure is blood.  I would probably desire the murderer of my relative to be killed, too.  From my current standpoint, though, life in prison is a worse punishment.  Locked in a cage every day for the rest of their pathetic life to rot until they finally die.  I don't care how much cable tv they get to watch.  They can lift weights forever.  As long as they can never get their freedom back they are punished every single day.  That is the ultimate revenge in my eyes.  Plus, it is cheaper than the death penalty (due to the court costs of the seemingly endless appeals).

I would give the criminal the choice between the death penalty or life in prison.  Death penalty options would be electrocution, firing squad or something more painful.  No easy way out with "humane" (aka painless) methods.  If they are too scared of the suffering they can just rot in a cell.  With cable tv.
RichardAwesome
#6 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 1:27:42 PM
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PissedOffMonkey wrote:
Some of these things were already mentioned by DCMH, but these are my thoughts:

Most of the people executed seem to have mental issues of some sort.  Society prefers to not have people with issues that may have caused them to murder others.  Those on death row likely didn't worry about the consequences of their actions beforehand.  Therefore, the deterrent aspect of capital punishment seems useless.

Relatives of the victims generally want revenge.  Closure is blood.  I would probably desire the murderer of my relative to be killed, too.  From my current standpoint, though, life in prison is a worse punishment.  Locked in a cage every day for the rest of their pathetic life to rot until they finally die.  I don't care how much cable tv they get to watch.  They can lift weights forever.  As long as they can never get their freedom back they are punished every single day.  That is the ultimate revenge in my eyes.  Plus, it is cheaper than the death penalty (due to the court costs of the seemingly endless appeals).

I would give the criminal the choice between the death penalty or life in prison.  Death penalty options would be electrocution, firing squad or something more painful.  No easy way out with "humane" (aka painless) methods.  If they are too scared of the suffering they can just rot in a cell.  With cable tv.


They don't rot in a cell.  They find Jesus and forgive themselves.
Lead Salad
#7 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 1:59:16 PM
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Killing is bad. Is that a well-reasoned argument?
RichardAwesome
#8 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 3:11:10 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Killing is bad. Is that a well-reasoned argument?


No, given your body actively kills foreign entities within you at any given moment that may pose a threat to your own existence.

"Killing is wrong" is an irrational argument.
Lead Salad
#9 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 3:28:34 PM
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Thank you Mr. Semantics prick. Ok, I'll fine tune it just for you.

Killing when your life is not in danger is bad.
RichardAwesome
#10 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 4:26:54 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Thank you Mr. Semantics prick. Ok, I'll fine tune it just for you.

Killing when your life is not in danger is bad.


What if it's to save the lives of others outside of your own?


Sorry about the semantics bit, but I am engaged in a philosophy class and if anything is about semantics, it's that.
Rikaelus
#11 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 5:41:25 PM
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I don't support it because:
  • Our court system doesn't yield 100% accuracy and with the more severe charges that would warrant the death penalty, emotions would run higher and there'd be a higher chance of people "just looking for someone to blame".
  • Those who convict someone to death can too easily wash their hands of the responsibility.
  • I believe there's always the chance for rehabilitation, though admittedly our current system sucks at it.
  • I don't trust politicians to define the circumstances which warrant the death penalty.
  • It's cruel and unusual psychological punishment to wave death over someone's head who's on death row for a long time.
  • If someone commits a crime they know is punishable by death then they have no incentive to stop it, and could continue it until they're caught - what more could they lose?
  • Racism or prejudice within an area could easily lead to someone being found guilty of a crime they didn't commit - an inherent and continuing problem of humanity.

Lead Salad
#12 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 6:06:58 PM
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RichardAwesome wrote:
Lead Salad wrote:
Thank you Mr. Semantics prick. Ok, I'll fine tune it just for you.

Killing when your life is not in danger is bad.


What if it's to save the lives of others outside of your own?


Sorry about the semantics bit, but I am engaged in a philosophy class and if anything is about semantics, it's that.


Very rarely is that situation acceptable. It depends on the circumstances.

By the way, I'm arguing that killing is bad, not that it's universally morally wrong. I don't think you got that from reading my first post. Taking most drugs is bad, but we still do it.

So really, killing is bad in all circumstances. Whether or not it is acceptable or morally wrong depends on the circumstances.
RichardAwesome
#13 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 6:12:33 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
RichardAwesome wrote:
Lead Salad wrote:
Thank you Mr. Semantics prick. Ok, I'll fine tune it just for you.

Killing when your life is not in danger is bad.


What if it's to save the lives of others outside of your own?


Sorry about the semantics bit, but I am engaged in a philosophy class and if anything is about semantics, it's that.


Very rarely is that situation acceptable. It depends on the circumstances.


Gunman threatens to kill hostages.  Law enforcement sniper has clear safe shot to take out gunman.  Negotiations have failed.  Do you take the shot?
Lead Salad
#14 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 6:13:09 PM
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Read my edit
RichardAwesome
#15 Posted: : Friday, October 31, 2008 6:14:14 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Read my edit


Even for food?

Btw, "bad" is a moral argument. 
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