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Dealing with pigs Options
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#1 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:32:17 AM
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Key words to use when dealing with cops:

"Am I under arrest, or am I free to go?"

If the answer is free to go then GTFO.

If the answer is under arrest:

"I would like to speak with a lawyer"

Either way STFU, unless of course you want to help the cops with whatever task they have set their little minds to.
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Lead Salad
#2 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:41:58 AM
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Gib_Omelet
#3 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 4:33:29 PM
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Or:


endyss
#4 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:51:47 PM
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The first video is utter bullshit (though legally technically correct). All the law they cite about consenting to searches and an officer's ability to enter your car without probable cause are correct, but it totally neglects two important things:

1) Remember when the officer said he could arrest the kid for the speed he was going? Yup, and you piss the wrong cop off by waiving your Constitutional cock in his face and he just might do it. He wouldn't have done anything wrong -- in almost every case, ANY traffic infraction is covered under state penal code... for which you can be arrested, taken into custody, and formally charged.

There's nothing requiring him to walk back over and just hand the guy a ticket. When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


2) Say you were dealing with a REALLY not-so-nice cop, or one who perceived your Constitutional dick-waving as a challenge. He might manufacture probable cause to enter anyway ("I thought I saw [a gun]/[drugs]/[alcohol]"), and what then? He waves his armed law enforcement dick in your face, searches every inch of your car if he likes, then leaves you with the biggest ticket he can write (assuming #1 from above doesn't kick in).

What can you do about it, huh? Answer: not a whole lot. You can complain -- unlikely to get far. The "legal" answer is to file suit with the city or county for violation of your constitutional rights. It would be long, drawn out, and MIGHT at best result in some negative action against the officer (but hardly a guarantee, remember HE has the right to defend HIMSELF against a kid who'd make stuff up). Either way, you'd better not speed an ounce over the limit again in that jurisdiction -- cops protect their own.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#5 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:06:46 AM
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endyss wrote:
The first video is utter bullshit (though legally technically correct). All the law they cite about consenting to searches and an officer's ability to enter your car without probable cause are correct, but it totally neglects two important things:

1) Remember when the officer said he could arrest the kid for the speed he was going? Yup, and you piss the wrong cop off by waiving your Constitutional cock in his face and he just might do it. He wouldn't have done anything wrong -- in almost every case, ANY traffic infraction is covered under state penal code... for which you can be arrested, taken into custody, and formally charged.

There's nothing requiring him to walk back over and just hand the guy a ticket. When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


2) Say you were dealing with a REALLY not-so-nice cop, or one who perceived your Constitutional dick-waving as a challenge. He might manufacture probable cause to enter anyway ("I thought I saw [a gun]/[drugs]/[alcohol]"), and what then? He waves his armed law enforcement dick in your face, searches every inch of your car if he likes, then leaves you with the biggest ticket he can write (assuming #1 from above doesn't kick in).

What can you do about it, huh? Answer: not a whole lot. You can complain -- unlikely to get far. The "legal" answer is to file suit with the city or county for violation of your constitutional rights. It would be long, drawn out, and MIGHT at best result in some negative action against the officer (but hardly a guarantee, remember HE has the right to defend HIMSELF against a kid who'd make stuff up). Either way, you'd better not speed an ounce over the limit again in that jurisdiction -- cops protect their own.


Yes, exercising your rights pisses off people who are trying to violate them. Are you a slave? If not, fuck that shit and let them take it to the next level.
Razor wrote:
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Giller [GwDR]
#6 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:04:48 AM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
endyss wrote:
The first video is utter bullshit (though legally technically correct). All the law they cite about consenting to searches and an officer's ability to enter your car without probable cause are correct, but it totally neglects two important things:

1) Remember when the officer said he could arrest the kid for the speed he was going? Yup, and you piss the wrong cop off by waiving your Constitutional cock in his face and he just might do it. He wouldn't have done anything wrong -- in almost every case, ANY traffic infraction is covered under state penal code... for which you can be arrested, taken into custody, and formally charged.

There's nothing requiring him to walk back over and just hand the guy a ticket. When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


2) Say you were dealing with a REALLY not-so-nice cop, or one who perceived your Constitutional dick-waving as a challenge. He might manufacture probable cause to enter anyway ("I thought I saw [a gun]/[drugs]/[alcohol]"), and what then? He waves his armed law enforcement dick in your face, searches every inch of your car if he likes, then leaves you with the biggest ticket he can write (assuming #1 from above doesn't kick in).

What can you do about it, huh? Answer: not a whole lot. You can complain -- unlikely to get far. The "legal" answer is to file suit with the city or county for violation of your constitutional rights. It would be long, drawn out, and MIGHT at best result in some negative action against the officer (but hardly a guarantee, remember HE has the right to defend HIMSELF against a kid who'd make stuff up). Either way, you'd better not speed an ounce over the limit again in that jurisdiction -- cops protect their own.


Yes, exercising your rights pisses off people who are trying to violate them. Are you a slave? If not, fuck that shit and let them take it to the next level.


My advice would only be to pick your battles. That doesnt mean pick EVERY battle, mind you. I don't see any point in provocating an officer for some traffic stop i was guilty for anyway.

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WDF?
#7 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:19:29 AM
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I have found you can find happiness in slavery.

ahhhh_crap
#8 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:22:06 AM
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WDF? wrote:
I have found you can find happiness in slavery.


This is because you like ball gags and sirus in leather
endyss
#9 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:30:33 PM
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Giller [GwDR wrote:
My advice would only be to pick your battles. That doesnt mean pick EVERY battle, mind you. I don't see any point in provocating an officer for some traffic stop i was guilty for anyway.


Thank you, that was more what I was getting at.

If a cop pulls me over for absolutely no reason and demands to search my car, you can bet I'd fight it. Even if he doesn't necessarily have a reason to search, but he stopped me because I was speeding (which I usually am), I would probably let him. Recognizing the reality of the situation, in spite of the legality, doesn't make you a slave. You DO have a recourse against an officer violating your rights, but starting a pissing contest doesn't benefit you much either.

In another example, Best Buy regularly asks to see my receipt when I'm exiting the store, despite the fact that I was just handed the damn thing by a cashier not 5 feet from him. From a purely legal perspective, they have no right to demand it -- they are only legally allowed to detain you if they specifically suspect you of shoplifting (and a store policy to detain anyone walking out with a big-ticket item doesn't cut it). But that said, do I get all "right"eous (pun intended) anytime it happens? Hell no. Store employees might not be as aware of the law as I am and call the cops, the minor inconvenience could easily be replaced by a much longer detention, even if not legal.

And the consequences of pissing matches with the wrong Best Buy manager? Sure, you could sue them for any "damages" you incurred. You could also find yourself no longer welcome to shop in that particular retailer, which is of course their right in response to your disruption of store procedures. Laws like these are important and serve very real purposes, but demanding absolute compliance in an otherwise minor situation has practical consequences too. Everyone's cost/benefit comes out differently; do what works for you.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Super Penguin
#10 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:41:24 PM
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That's what BestBuy.com is for!

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The_Spaniard
#11 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:48:36 PM
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endyss wrote:
Giller [GwDR wrote:
My advice would only be to pick your battles. That doesnt mean pick EVERY battle, mind you. I don't see any point in provocating an officer for some traffic stop i was guilty for anyway.


Thank you, that was more what I was getting at.

If a cop pulls me over for absolutely no reason and demands to search my car, you can bet I'd fight it. Even if he doesn't necessarily have a reason to search, but he stopped me because I was speeding (which I usually am), I would probably let him. Recognizing the reality of the situation, in spite of the legality, doesn't make you a slave. You DO have a recourse against an officer violating your rights, but starting a pissing contest doesn't benefit you much either.

In another example, Best Buy regularly asks to see my receipt when I'm exiting the store, despite the fact that I was just handed the damn thing by a cashier not 5 feet from him. From a purely legal perspective, they have no right to demand it -- they are only legally allowed to detain you if they specifically suspect you of shoplifting (and a store policy to detain anyone walking out with a big-ticket item doesn't cut it). But that said, do I get all "right"eous (pun intended) anytime it happens? Hell no. Store employees might not be as aware of the law as I am and call the cops, the minor inconvenience could easily be replaced by a much longer detention, even if not legal.

And the consequences of pissing matches with the wrong Best Buy manager? Sure, you could sue them for any "damages" you incurred. You could also find yourself no longer welcome to shop in that particular retailer, which is of course their right in response to your disruption of store procedures. Laws like these are important and serve very real purposes, but demanding absolute compliance in an otherwise minor situation has practical consequences too. Everyone's cost/benefit comes out differently; do what works for you.

So let me get this straight, as a result of being wronged by a Best Buy employee they could just tell you that you are no longer welcome there? That would just make me "take it to the next level" with corporate.
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Useless
#12 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:56:14 PM
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endyss wrote:
The first video is utter bullshit (though legally technically correct). All the law they cite about consenting to searches and an officer's ability to enter your car without probable cause are correct, but it totally neglects two important things:

1) Remember when the officer said he could arrest the kid for the speed he was going? Yup, and you piss the wrong cop off by waiving your Constitutional cock in his face and he just might do it. He wouldn't have done anything wrong -- in almost every case, ANY traffic infraction is covered under state penal code... for which you can be arrested, taken into custody, and formally charged.

There's nothing requiring him to walk back over and just hand the guy a ticket. When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


My dad was a Chicago cop and I can say this is pretty much 100% correct. He wasn't exactly pulling people over for running stop signs (worked on the west side) but every now and then he would have to stop someone for driving dangerously. If they said something to piss him off, which usually was along the lines of "Do you know who I am?" then he would look for every little thing they were doing wrong and would give them a ticket for it. He'd check everything, from the dates of their car stickers to how far the were from the curb and give them the biggest ticket he could give.

I do have to say I never heard him complain about people asserting their rights, but he complained plenty about politicians and people who work for them trying to get out of tickets. He hates politicians...
Gib_Omelet
#13 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 4:40:04 PM
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endyss wrote:
The first video is utter bullshit (though legally technically correct). All the law they cite about consenting to searches and an officer's ability to enter your car without probable cause are correct, but it totally neglects two important things:

1) Remember when the officer said he could arrest the kid for the speed he was going? Yup, and you piss the wrong cop off by waiving your Constitutional cock in his face and he just might do it. He wouldn't have done anything wrong -- in almost every case, ANY traffic infraction is covered under state penal code... for which you can be arrested, taken into custody, and formally charged.

There's nothing requiring him to walk back over and just hand the guy a ticket. When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


2) Say you were dealing with a REALLY not-so-nice cop, or one who perceived your Constitutional dick-waving as a challenge. He might manufacture probable cause to enter anyway ("I thought I saw [a gun]/[drugs]/[alcohol]"), and what then? He waves his armed law enforcement dick in your face, searches every inch of your car if he likes, then leaves you with the biggest ticket he can write (assuming #1 from above doesn't kick in).

What can you do about it, huh? Answer: not a whole lot. You can complain -- unlikely to get far. The "legal" answer is to file suit with the city or county for violation of your constitutional rights. It would be long, drawn out, and MIGHT at best result in some negative action against the officer (but hardly a guarantee, remember HE has the right to defend HIMSELF against a kid who'd make stuff up). Either way, you'd better not speed an ounce over the limit again in that jurisdiction -- cops protect their own.


Whoa, hoss.

The thing about this issue that you may be neglecting is the fact that the video showed some key points that will deal with a rational (albeit edgy and probably mal-adjusted or rookie) cop.

When the cop is rational, you can use the above techniques to make it a simple traffic stop. I am a longhair, and I therefore drive around with a HUGE fucking "bust me first" sign painted on any car I drive. I have amazed many a fellow hippie by doing similar to the first film. I have sat in bars and drank with cops and lawyers (simultaneously) (Incidentally - that sounds like the beginning of a joke: A cop, a lawyer and a hippie walk into a bar...), and they assured me of the actions to take when being pulled over.

I have the added bonus of being a cautious, courteous and law-abiding driver. This does not mean I do not speed, it just means that I am safely speeding when I do so.

A recent case to support my claims:

I was travelling through an area near South Park, Colorado ( it really exists, look it up), when I was pulled over by law-enforcement. My girlfriend and I had or had not smoked a fat doobie a few hours before driving, and there was still a lingering of scent that could conceivably been detected. I asked her to let me handle it, and strangely enough, she agreed.

The officer came to my car, and I had the window only cracked 1 inch, hands crossed on the steering wheel holding my papers. He asked me to lower my window, and I lowered it another inch. He asked me why I didn't lower it all the way, and I gently protested due the wind and cold. I told him we could easily deal with the situation with it that far open. [My g/f was losing her mind at this point]. He shrugged, and just informed me how fast I was going. I merely said, "I'm sorry, I didn't notice. I hope you understand."

He just nodded, very professionally, and proceeded to go to his car, check for priors, and gave me his card and went on his way. I was let off with a warning after gently rubbing my flaccid cock of fair compliance near him. This event has been duplicated multiple times over the years, and no arrests since 1992, I must say. Only one moving violation, as well (he was a dick who nailed me in a sneaky trap - DA offered a much reduced sentence when I threatened evidence of this trap - no points).

I think the video is gold, because the driver never responds in kind, and fully secures his friends. So much can go wrong when the friends say stupid shit. So much can go wrong when you say stupid shit.

Rarely will an officer go all RENO 911 on yer ass if you simply comply with reasonable requests like you are enthusiastic to do so. When you restrict his or her attempts on the thin line of your rights, you get some points for being compliant in all other aspects. A trick I use to keep my cool is to think of yourself as another investigator, and to help him or her solve his "crime" as quickly as you can, without letting them do anything more than solve the crime they are claiming was the reason for the stop.

I have several other tricks up my sleeve, which is for the day when a cop actually goes to testify against you in a court of law. I have written something under my signature on my DL that a cop could or could not remember. If the cop reads it and remembers the legal statement, kudos to him/her. If not, then I can just claim they aren't too observant, are they. My cop friend called me a dick for doing so, and agreed it was a total dick move that would work on him.

I think assuming the best is a good way to go, but proceed to protect against the worst.

Quote:
When he said he was going to take it to the next level, I fully expected another cop car to show up, handcuff them and take them in while the other officer waited for a tow for the vehicle.


True, it could happen, but if you follow the "keep cool and helpful" method, only an erratic dick cop would do so. Other cops do protect their own, but they also will not go out of their way to help cops who are dicks. Low-level stuff like this only will become an issue if you are really shit out of luck in southern states, or eastern Washington/Oregon or Idaho. Then you just better squeal like a pig.





endyss
#14 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 4:53:43 PM
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Gib_Omelet--

Leaving aside of course that in your example you were keeping your window up specifically to avoid being detected for ANOTHER crime besides speeding (I don't agree it should be a crime, yada yada, but the cop's going to care), the main problem I have with the approach in the video is basically the "being uncooperative via asserting your 4th Amendment rights." To plenty of cops, being uncooperative is being uncooperative, whether you are technically within your rights or not. That raises suspicions (note: NOT NOT NOT probable cause kind of suspicion) and risks getting on the officer's bad side.

My comment is related to asserting your right just for its own sake. If you're doing it to cover up evidence of ANOTHER crime, it might well be the smart move to try to do. But if you're driving along, NOT smoking pot, not doing anything else but speeding, being cooperative with a cop will ultimately be faar easier on you in the long run than telling a police officer "I don't consent to any searches, sir."


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Useless
#15 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:01:16 PM
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Gib_Omelet wrote:
A trick I use to keep my cool is to think of yourself as another investigator, and to help him or her solve his "crime" as quickly as you can, without letting them do anything more than solve the crime they are claiming was the reason for the stop.


So when he asks you how fast you were going you tell him the exact speed? That'd solve things fast.
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