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queer is the new jewish! Options
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#1 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 8:48:34 PM
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I still haven't figured out why anyone gives a fuck about anyone else's sexuality. Considering all the evidence available the most plausible explanation I can come up with is that they are all hiding in the back of the closet.

Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Lead Salad
#2 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:29:45 PM
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Dogmatic xenophobes get more attention than they deserve. That having been said I think a fair portion of those against gay marriage are not like Billo or Robertson. I have met many christians who claim they don't have a problem with gay people being together or raising a family but they don't think they should get "married". It's basically the Jim Crow mentality. Most white americans during the segregation era actually believed blacks were being treated equally, and weren't particularly mean towards blacks (according to gallup).

Today it's the exact same thing, what really blows my mind isn't that people are such assholes about where other people put their dick/cunt, but that people don't see the connection between gay marriage and racial segregation, and that people still think "separate but equal" is okay. It's too bad that gays make up such a small minority, perhaps a million faygala march is in order?

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there already was one, and nobody knows about it because the media doesn't give a shit.
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#3 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 9:47:03 PM
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Screw a million fag march, they should stage fuck-ins. Like a sit-in, only way less boring. Lets see the local news cover that!
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


endyss
#4 Posted: : Wednesday, May 13, 2009 11:33:21 PM
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The video is idiotically distorted, Michael Moore would be proud.

But on a serious note, other than just saying "Well, ok, we'd just define marriage as between TWO people and no more," can anyone give me a valid justification for why not to deny polygamy (or "triads", or whatever)?


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#5 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 12:28:55 AM
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endyss wrote:
The video is idiotically distorted, Michael Moore would be proud.

But on a serious note, other than just saying "Well, ok, we'd just define marriage as between TWO people and no more," can anyone give me a valid justification for why not to deny polygamy (or "triads", or whatever)?


If by idiotically distorted you mean full of idiots who distort reality, then yes it is.

There is no valid justification for denying polygamy as long as its consensual. The state has no interest except to perpetuate religious bullshit. Why should anyone care if three people are in love and want to get married to each other? Even assuming there is some valid reason to care ("think of the children!") it's not enough to justify denying a fundamental human right. I don't remember the specifics anymore, but I'm sure being a lawyer you know the usual thresholds for the degree of scrutiny applied to the states claimed interest by the SC, "protected classes" and all that. Go look up cases where they've had to weigh in on marriage, Loving v. Virginia you've probably heard of at least. Per the big shots at the top, marriage is one of the most basic and fundamental human rights (I don't see any reason to disagree with them but I'm certainly open to argument on that point). When the government messes with it for social engineering purposes that's some extra-bad shit according to them, when the state says it has an interest in regulating marriage in some way that claim needs to have some serious justification behind it. Same principle, new era. If we're going to live in a free nation then the state is going to have to prove why it denies that right to any person.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Stranger
#6 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:03:24 AM
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Atleast it's slowly gaining ground, but good god, whi is it that you always have to drag people kicking and screaming through any kind of social change?
WDF?
#7 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 10:08:11 AM
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I'd personally be all for marrying more than one woman. Let's face it, folks... one gets boring.

Giller [GwDR]
#8 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:05:24 AM
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WDF? wrote:
I'd personally be all for marrying more than one woman. Let's face it, folks... one gets boring.

I like this idea because I have a decent amount of income... Its those poor bastards out there that would suffer. Let them get all the "less desirable" women, while rich men build great harems of the good stock. Because no woman is going to marry you when you make 20k or less...when they can just marry up as a second or third wife to a guy making 250k+ a year and who can better provide for her life and future children.

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"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
Lead Salad
#9 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 11:51:36 AM
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I want a harem so bad. That would be beast mode. Too bad if it's My harem it'll probably be full of ugly chicks..
endyss
#10 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 1:10:02 PM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
There is no valid justification for denying polygamy as long as its consensual. The state has no interest except to perpetuate religious bullshit. Why should anyone care if three people are in love and want to get married to each other? Even assuming there is some valid reason to care ("think of the children!") it's not enough to justify denying a fundamental human right. I don't remember the specifics anymore, but I'm sure being a lawyer you know the usual thresholds for the degree of scrutiny applied to the states claimed interest by the SC, "protected classes" and all that. Go look up cases where they've had to weigh in on marriage, Loving v. Virginia you've probably heard of at least. Per the big shots at the top, marriage is one of the most basic and fundamental human rights (I don't see any reason to disagree with them but I'm certainly open to argument on that point). When the government messes with it for social engineering purposes that's some extra-bad shit according to them, when the state says it has an interest in regulating marriage in some way that claim needs to have some serious justification behind it. Same principle, new era. If we're going to live in a free nation then the state is going to have to prove why it denies that right to any person.

I couldn't have said it better myself (though probably longer :P).


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Useless
#11 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 4:54:42 PM
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endyss wrote:
The video is idiotically distorted, Michael Moore would be proud.

But on a serious note, other than just saying "Well, ok, we'd just define marriage as between TWO people and no more," can anyone give me a valid justification for why not to deny polygamy (or "triads", or whatever)?


Would contracts written to include spouses now extend to all spouses under polygamy? That might be a huge problem that would need to be addressed.
endyss
#12 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:00:41 PM
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Useless wrote:
endyss wrote:
The video is idiotically distorted, Michael Moore would be proud.

But on a serious note, other than just saying "Well, ok, we'd just define marriage as between TWO people and no more," can anyone give me a valid justification for why not to deny polygamy (or "triads", or whatever)?


Would contracts written to include spouses now extend to all spouses under polygamy? That might be a huge problem that would need to be addressed.

True, and it's the "best" justification, IMO. But it wouldn't be impossible, and laws are made to be broken (and broken and broken and eventually just changed).


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Gib_Omelet
#13 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:02:22 PM
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The far right is really the big brother they claim they are fighting.

The founding fathers were careful to not define "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

The biggest concept of law that must be raised is "where is the harm?"

Common Law is really governed by the principle of harm. If someone has harmed another, then there is a problem we must deal with. The Magna Carta was one of the first steps in making this law a reality,where it laid out the principle of Habeas Corpus. I see Habeas Corpus provides that a victimless crime is merely one man alleging another man (or woman, if you please) has transgressed them in a not-qualifiable or not-quantifiable (in the case of equity law) way.

I really want to know where the hell the body is when Vincent and Guido want to move in together, exchange vows, share in benefits other couples are afforded, and then be as miserable or happy as they can be together. Jeez, there is evidence that could say that homosexual men are less likely to be child predators than heterosexual men - so why can't they raise a family? I demand a body of evidence to be submitted for scientific review , or at least to be debated at length by those with competent ability.

As to multiple marriage partners? Jeez, does it matter? Those with tons of money will have the harems, and distribute the wealth around thereby. If it affects you, then follow the line of consent - evidence of harm or beat it.

I'd most likely score the attractive yet severely crazy harem. Dead in months, by brain asplode.


Useless
#14 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:05:27 PM
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endyss wrote:
Useless wrote:
endyss wrote:
The video is idiotically distorted, Michael Moore would be proud.

But on a serious note, other than just saying "Well, ok, we'd just define marriage as between TWO people and no more," can anyone give me a valid justification for why not to deny polygamy (or "triads", or whatever)?


Would contracts written to include spouses now extend to all spouses under polygamy? That might be a huge problem that would need to be addressed.

True, and it's the "best" justification, IMO. But it wouldn't be impossible, and laws are made to be broken (and broken and broken and eventually just changed).


True, but there are some laws, benefits, and contracts that were written to just be shared with two people and those would have to be looked at re-written before polygamy was legalized. Can you imagine having 5 wives and a crap-ton of kids/step kids and trying to get them all on your fantastic work insurance?

It's not impossible, but I think it would be a legal nightmare.
endyss
#15 Posted: : Thursday, May 14, 2009 5:08:43 PM
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I have a neighbor and her husband and between them they have EIGHT children (they just fall out at this point, I think). Crazy, but not at all unheard of. Trade a couple of those ankle biters in for spouses and you have basically the same situation.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


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