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Rank: Polio Power!

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 6/14/2008 Posts: 666 Points: 1,416 Location: San Diego
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Bike wrote:-Fixed Announcer overtime bug on KOTH servers using mp_timelimit
--Due to many requests, added server ConVar "tf_overtime_nag". When set to 1, it keeps the broken announcer behavior
LOL We better keep that shiz...hearing the anouncer going into an o'gasm is just awesome.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 7/3/2008 Posts: 190 Points: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Update pros and cons: Pros: *New maps *Sandmen can no longer stun ubers *Overtime, overtime, overtime, overtime, overtime, overtime! *Fixed hitboxes *Sappers can now use teleporters *Sandmen scouts have 30 less health *Made baseball shootable with alt fire *More sawmill *Humiliation animations *Made Kritz more noticeable *Undisguised spies can use teleporters Cons: *All projectiles (stickies/rockets/grenades/baseballs/arrows/flares) are faster *Increased flamethrower damage (or decreased falloff, in the end they're the same thing) *Most weapons fire faster *People are healed much, much, much faster *Soldiers and demos jump much higher or don't jump high at all, it seems to alternate between these two extremes *Increased/added massive knockback to all bullet weapons (usually only noticeable when person hit is in the air) *Increased air blast range (50% or so now) *Decreased rocket splash area *Rockets sometimes do no damage to enemies (this might've been fixed today) *Baseball does almost 5x more damage *Stunned enemies take 50% more damage than before *cp_Yukon still sucks. Valve needs to pick good community maps to promote, not popular ones *Minigun cone of fire decreased (more accurate) *Engineers can protect both ends of a teleporter at the same time *Critboost on flag capture (can be disabled) *Splash damage is really funky (some people next to the source take no damage while people behind them are hit) (might've been fixed today) *Sandmen scouts can double jump *Gave soldier medals to a select few who happened to be home trolling the steam forums at the time the update was released instead of to people who have had the game since it was released and have 300 hours logged as a soldier *Made crits more common *Made melee crit streaks broken (a string of 17 crits in a row is probably not balanced) *Stickies no longer stick to capture points *Spies cloak more quickly (maybe?) Undecided: Made spy cloaking harder to spot The bottom line: Valve spent over one month developing 18 new hats and prevented minor spawn camping on one respawn on Granary. Scouts, pyros, medics, heavies, and engineers received some bonuses. As usual. Soldiers, demomen, and spies got the short straw. Soldiers big time. As usual. For being a classless update, just about every change centered around classes. But I don't really care because classes start up again soon and TF2 doesn't like my Macbook for some reason.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User
Joined: 5/5/2009 Posts: 353 Points: 1,113 Location: San Antonio
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Yukon fucking rocks -.- Also, they are going to be releasing misc. items, when i get the link I'll try to send them to every1 i know. Thats how i came across the medal.  [CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
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Rank: The Number 12 Personified

Groups: {pDs} Member, Administration
Joined: 2/5/2009 Posts: 449 Points: 9,369 Location: next to 11 and 13
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defiance wrote:Yukon fucking rocks -.- What time is it? OVERTIME!!! =D DredNaught wrote:In regard to the ladies... or lack thereof: Just remember that it's about quality, not quantity. And when you do meet a lucky lady, don't be a fool, wrap your tool!
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Newsie, Registered User
Joined: 6/16/2006 Posts: 1,301 Points: 1,263
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Fat Pigeon wrote:Update pros and cons:
Pros: *New maps *Sandmen can no longer stun ubers *Overtime *Fixed hitboxes *Sappers can now use teleporters *Sandmen scouts have 30 less health *Made baseball shootable with alt fire *More sawmill *Humiliation animations *Made Kritz more noticable
Cons: *All weapons fire faster *People are healed much faster *Soldiers and demos jump much higher or don't jump high at all, it seems to alternate between these two extremes *Increased/added knockback to several weapons *Increased air blast range *Rockets sometimes do no damage to enemies (this might've been fixed today) *Baseball does almost 5x more damage *Stunned enemies take 50% more damage than before *cp_Yukon still stucks. Valve needs to pick good community maps to promote, not popular ones *Minigun cone of fire decreased *Engineers can protect both ends of a teleporter at the same time *Critboost on flag capture (can be disabled) *Splash damage is really funky (might've been fixed today) *Sandmen scouts can double jump *Gave soldier medals to a select few who happened to be home trolling the steam forums at the time the update was released instead of to people who have had the game since it was released and have 300 hours logged as a soldier *Made crits more common *Made melee crit streaks broken (a string of 17 crits in a row is probably not balanced)
Undecided: Made spy cloaking harder to spot
The bottom line: Valve spent over one month developing 18 new hats and prevented minor spawn camping on one respawn on Granary. Scouts, pyros, medics, heavies, and engineers received some bonuses. Soldiers, demomen, and spies got the short straw. Soldiers big time. As usual. For being a classless update, just about every change centered around classes. But I don't really care because classes start up again soon and TF2 doesn't like my Macbook for some reason. Most of your cons are pros to me. Weapons, especially the pistol, now fire a lot slower especially for me since I used to have a pretty fast trigger finger which is now worthless. I think the health sacrifice for the sandman is a HUGE trade to use the bat. It's incredibly easy to toast a scout that uses the bat now. Yukon is a competitive community favorite. A lot of the top tier competitive players worked on this last update to give them some fixes that benefit them for once (considering that Valve has really dont shit for them lately). Things like the auto reload (which you didn't mention) and other things came from their feedback. I do agree with some of the cons, like the critboost. {pDs} Lead Salad: bike why did you change your name Jessica343: so I can get heals {pDs} Lead Salad: oh damn good idea {pDs} Lead Salad has changed their name to {pDs} Lead Salad (is a girl) Jessica343: hahah
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User
Joined: 5/5/2009 Posts: 353 Points: 1,113 Location: San Antonio
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Fat Pigeon wrote:Gave soldier medals to a select few who happened to be home trolling the steam forums at the time the update was released instead of to people who have had the game since it was released and have 300 hours logged as a soldier. I got mine at 9:30ish central just waiting for a scrim to start. People sent me the link. Some people messaged me the next day, and were like "you prolly didn't get your medal I DID HAHAHAH" I think they were the ones trolling boards, cuz I know they didn't tell a single person. If i hear about one next time, I will spam you fatty :D [CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User
Joined: 5/5/2009 Posts: 353 Points: 1,113 Location: San Antonio
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wooooow, so i didn't realize how bad they screwed the soldier, tell i started playing it. They like cut in-half how fast and how high you can jump, making the soldier boring as hell. Though its not my main class, the rocket jumping makes soldier really fun, now, its a bore IMO. However, I heard they didn't mean to do this, so lets hope it gets fixed. We did a pug, and nobody wanted to play soldier. [CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 7/3/2008 Posts: 190 Points: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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Yukon's design is inconsistent with stock maps. While as the crow flies it might not be true, in gameplay, the distance (time, in effect) from the second spawn point to the fourth cap point is further (longer) than the distance (time) from the first spawn point to the middle point. Coupled with the maze of empty tunnels connecting wide open areas, it feels like I'm lost on a hiking expedition instead of fighting over logging rights or whatever. I've played the map in an 8 vs. 8 or so game before and it was fun, but the play value drops significantly as more players are added. Is making a casual game more 'competitive-friendly' good? When will Valve collaborate with the top-tier 'fun' players and do studies on mario_kart 3x speed all crits servers and make the game more suitable for their playstyles? Yes. I realize that's a stupid point, but it's what Valve deserves for constantly catering to specific players and adding useless gimmicks instead of following through with their original goal. And for making my FPS drop by about 10 every update. While I find this update, in the whole scheme of life, to be irrelevant, it continues the downward trend of Valve and its TF2 updates. Starting with the very first 'major' update, Valve has attempted to reconstruct the game and its play style. Doing it one piece at a time makes it very noticeable and very off-putting. I went through the developer commentary this evening, and nearly every update and every change is in opposition to their original goals. When Valve makes changes for a specific minority, they fail to realize what it's doing to gameplay and how they've completely remade the game. In my opinion (who cares, eh?) for the worse. Valve originally said they wanted a light, casual game that focused on highly strategic team play to succeed. Now it's becoming the chaotic spamfest they originally wanted to avoid by adding faster weapons, more particle effects, more damage (to some). What works for a team of 6 does not work for a team of 12+. Nearly every update has promoted extensive solo play in public servers and has gone directly against the original design goal. Also, I don't like the huge selection of main menu music. I liked the original 3 (4?) the most. Especially this one. Maybe I just don't like first person shooters. This is the first FPS I've truly enjoyed because it was more strategic, forgiving, and varied than other games, but Valve's decision to do away with what made it stand apart from other games is disappointing. And their perpetual nerfs of the soldier.
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Newsie, Registered User
Joined: 6/16/2006 Posts: 1,301 Points: 1,263
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Fat Pigeon wrote:Yukon's design is inconsistent with stock maps. While as the crow flies it might not be true, in gameplay, the distance (time, in effect) from the second spawn point to the fourth cap point is further (longer) than the distance (time) from the first spawn point to the middle point. Coupled with the maze of empty tunnels connecting wide open areas, it feels like I'm lost on a hiking expedition instead of fighting over logging rights or whatever. I've played the map in an 8 vs. 8 or so game before and it was fun, but the play value drops significantly as more players are added. Is making a casual game more 'competitive-friendly' good? When will Valve collaborate with the top-tier 'fun' players and do studies on mario_kart 3x speed all crits servers and make the game more suitable for their playstyles? Yes. I realize that's a stupid point, but it's what Valve deserves for constantly catering to specific players and adding useless gimmicks instead of following through with their original goal. And for making my FPS drop by about 10 every update. While I find this update, in the whole scheme of life, to be irrelevant, it continues the downward trend of Valve and its TF2 updates. Starting with the very first 'major' update, Valve has attempted to reconstruct the game and its play style. Doing it one piece at a time makes it very noticeable and very off-putting. I went through the developer commentary this evening, and nearly every update and every change is in opposition to their original goals. When Valve makes changes for a specific minority, they fail to realize what it's doing to gameplay and how they've completely remade the game. In my opinion (who cares, eh?) for the worse. Valve originally said they wanted a light, casual game that focused on highly strategic team play to succeed. Now it's becoming the chaotic spamfest they originally wanted to avoid by adding faster weapons, more particle effects, more damage (to some). What works for a team of 6 does not work for a team of 12+. Nearly every update has promoted extensive solo play in public servers and has gone directly against the original design goal. Also, I don't like the huge selection of main menu music. I liked the original 3 (4?) the most. Especially this one. Maybe I just don't like first person shooters. This is the first FPS I've truly enjoyed because it was more strategic, forgiving, and varied than other games, but Valve's decision to do away with what made it stand apart from other games is disappointing. And their perpetual nerfs of the soldier. Wow. You obviously haven't competed in TF2 for that long. Valve has tons of maps and two whole gameplay modes that are not even used in competitive leagues. One map to satisfy the community is hardly overkill. Considering a map in behalf of a minority competitive community in comparison to whole gameplay modes in behalf of everyone else, I don't really know what you expect. 90% of this game is geared towards the 24 man pub servers. By the way, most competitive players use dx_mat 81. It's also hypocritical. The majority of big servers go out of their way to unbalance what valve does to the game by adding larger player counts, serverside mods, changing respawn times. There are very little vanilla servers out there these days that only run stock maps and stay true to anything around the original development of this game. The best news is for casual players is that you can play somewhere else. That idea can't happen in the competitive community. People say that Valve is losing touch and changing gameplay when the majority of those people play on servers that have done exactly that. That being said, Valve isn't perfect of course. They know better than anyone else what's working and what's not working. Unfortunately they can't cater to every single person, but any developer with the right mind will do what they can to make the majority of people happy. I for one am glad that they are working so hard to improve this game, or at least give it a lot of attention (see: hl2dm). When you first bought this game, did you expect that they would go so far as to double the map count, add three game modes, weapons, and new textures and animations? I didn't. It's a pretty nice surprise. I think most people that played this game when it was first released would say that it's a lot more fun than it was originally because of these additions. Yet, someone is still pissed. {pDs} Lead Salad: bike why did you change your name Jessica343: so I can get heals {pDs} Lead Salad: oh damn good idea {pDs} Lead Salad has changed their name to {pDs} Lead Salad (is a girl) Jessica343: hahah
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 7/3/2008 Posts: 190 Points: 303 Location: Pennsylvania
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In short: I've never played any competitive TF2. I don't care about competitive TF2. I don't know what dx_may 81 is. That's what Hammer/SDK is for (making competitive maps--Yukon isn't (or shouldn't be from what I've played of it) competitive anyway). There are plenty of vanilla/nearly-vanilla servers; some of them have a few custom maps, some don't. My favorite server just closed down last December. It was a 24-man vanilla sever with stock maps and none of these annoying console/screen messages. I have a few of those on my favorites list, but nobody ever plays on them. I never said Valve is losing touch with gameplay, I said Valve is losing touch with TF2 according to the developer commentary. Eight new maps are nice. I never said I hated Valve for releasing new maps. 21 of their new maps have been remakes of other official maps or maps made by other people, so I don't really know if I count those. Two of the new game modes are, again, in opposition to the developer commentary, so I don't really have much to say on the matter. I don't think I ever said I dislike what Valve has done, I said they they shouldn't have done it. Oh, and when I bought TF2 I expected to still own the game two-ish years later, not another game with the same title. This one is still fun, but not as good as the original. I'll go through a partial list (what I can remember offhand) of what Valve has done that goes against the Developer Commentary (if they added one of these with each update on a new map and explained why they added it, that would make people happy and be really cool. TF2/Portal have the best developer commentary I've seen in a game.) 1. DC: The soldier is a powerful long range attack class that can do devastating damage at long ranges. Changes: Distance attack of soldier cut by 66% (random number). Rocket damage at all ranges has been decreased twice. Splash damage has been decreased three times. 2. DC: We did not want to add a weapon that would remove movement control from the player. Changes: Added Sandman. 3. DC: We wanted players to be able to edit particle effects. Changes: Made custom particle effects unusable with sv_pure 1 or 2. 4. DC: We wanted to limit the number of particle effects on screen. Changes: Added more dust, added more blood, more than doubled the flamethrower flame length and its area (which was the example they used in the DC), added Bonk, added Jarate, added stun effects, added more weapon trails, added more uber/kritz effects, added more water effects, added snow, changed spy cloaking, added shinier teleporters and dispensers. The list goes on and on. 5. DC: We wanted the sniper to be strong at long ranges, but weak against anything relatively close to him. Changes: Added Huntsman. 6. DC: (also the in-game tips) The pyro is an ambush class. Wait around corners because the pyro is only effective at short ranges. Changes: Added air blast. Doubled air blast range. 7. DC: We wanted to encourage people to retreat if injured to a medic. Changes: Increased medigun healing rate drastically. Added Sandvich. 8. DC: We wanted TF2 to have a fast-paced gameplay with attack and defense waves that favor the attack. Changes: Added slower map modes like the payloads. 9. DC: We wanted the setting of TF2 to make at least a little sense so we added locales and buildings that suit a struggle between two corporations. Changes: Just about every new map ever made. Egypt especially. 10. DC: We wanted the scattergun to have a large spread. Changes: If you look at the DC now, the example in it has the scattergun's spread against the far wall smaller than a heavy's body. 11. DC: Overall, we wanted TF2 to be a slower, more strategic game that focuses on large-scale team attacks on fortified positions where a combined team effort is essential to winning on both attack and defense. Changes: You name it. Everything. 12. DC: We wanted to keep attacks going by adding forward spawn points on CP maps so that the offense has slightly less far to go with each capture point. Changes: Yukon. 13. DC: We wanted defenders on CP maps to be able to get around their attackers and flank them from nearly all sides by adding multiple exits, some of which are hard for attackers to guard. Changes: Badlands, Yukon, Fastlane, some others, I'm sure. 14. DC: We wanted the heavy to be devastating at close ranges, but completely ineffective at long ranges. Changes: Made it the most powerful long range class by a long shot. Only snipers are more effective in some situations. 15. DC: We wanted to make TF2 <insert anything here>. Changes: Added Jarate. 16. DC: We wanted to give soldiers the unique ability to jump to reach high spaces. Also the demoman. Changes: Nerfed jumps big time. Temporarily, hopefully. No. Some of the changes have been quite good and I still like the game, but the more recent gimmicks just entertain people who don't really care about playing. TF2 is unique in the realm of FPS and it should stay that way, but Valve has other plans if they keep what they're doing up. Also, their updates have a huge pattern of just being reversed after release anyway. Obviously I still enjoy it (from your post I think you inferred that I didn't?), but I think it's going the wrong way. Note I said I. I don't really care what makes everyone happy. I'm not everyone. If you look at simply the most popular servers, 24/7 32-man instant respawn servers are what make the majority happy. Heck, I want 24 man pubs to be more competitive, but as I said, the changes Valve has been making aren't leaning in that direction.
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Newsie, Registered User
Joined: 6/16/2006 Posts: 1,301 Points: 1,263
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I just don't know why you expect Valve to strictly maintain gameplay based on their original blueprint/commentary of the game. If that was as successful as they hoped it would be, chances are they probably wouldn't have bothered with all the new marketing, updates, and changes that they've been doing for a long time now. Why waste the money on something that's doing fine for them? They obviously saw that it wasn't fine - maybe through sales, hours logged, interest levels, etc. They're doing what any smart company does when they want to be more successful, or when things may not be going to plan- they're changing up the game plan. I can tell that you obviously love playing this game or else you wouldn't care so much about the things they are doing to change it. My point was also that Valve might also see that change is necessary because people go out of their way to change how they originally implemented the game. The stock maps were not designed for 32 players, instant respawn, or anything of that sort. If you want to blame someone for making Valve change up the way things were meant to be done (or at least what they planned to be done), blame people that took the time to undo the natural balance of gameplay that Valve designed around. Just about every single one of those unlockables were things people of the community suggested to them to make the game "even better!" What did Valve do? They listened. If the community wanted the original gameplay, then they wouldn't have asked for changes. Do you see what I'm getting at? In any event, it's good that you have a respect about the original idea of the game - because a lot of people don't care as much about that (I find that to be bad). I want to make sure Valve doesn't derail the FPS train and turn Team Fortress 2 into World of Fortress 2. I think a lot of the damage changes will be fixed (remember how broken Natascha was from an update?) They do seem to get around to just about everything eventually. We'll just have to see what happens in the future. {pDs} Lead Salad: bike why did you change your name Jessica343: so I can get heals {pDs} Lead Salad: oh damn good idea {pDs} Lead Salad has changed their name to {pDs} Lead Salad (is a girl) Jessica343: hahah
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
Joined: 5/31/2006 Posts: 3,454 Points: 445 Location: Merryland
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I have to say that TF2 is probably one of Valve's most involved games in terms of them doing updates. Taking DoD:S as an example. Besides the recent (and by recent I mean 6-10 months ago) update of the particle systems and achievements to match TF2, Valve has not done any updates short of tiny fixes or none at all. Even when the game was popular, they only added 1 new type of game play which was detonation where the players were to blow up specified objects. That's really the only thing I can remember them adding. HL2:DM was another example. I didn't play that as much as I did dod, but I can't recall any major updates (maybe I'm wrong, if so, someone can fill in the details) that were done to the game. TF2 has had new weapons, animations and game play modes put in almost once every 1-3 months. I'd say that's pretty impressive to come up with that, start programming it, testing it, fixing it, testing it again, and releasing it more or less successfully. "Valve time" was seen much less in this game as in other games.  Cantrip wrote:When I die, I want to be reincarnated as a woman's jogging bra.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
Groups: Registered User
Joined: 5/5/2009 Posts: 353 Points: 1,113 Location: San Antonio
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If the soldier thing isn't going to be changed, its going to quickly become one of the most boring classes in TF2, instead of one of the most dependent in competition and extremely fun with rocket jumps in pubs. Now you don't have a chance to keep up with any1, they can all run past you, rocket jumping is pointless, you hurt yourself a lot, and don't get anywhere. [CMS]defiance - Steam: defiance018 - Xfire: defianceoby - www.constantmayhem.com
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/13/2008 Posts: 1,509 Points: 2,004
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defiance wrote:If the soldier thing isn't going to be changed, its going to quickly become one of the most boring classes in TF2, instead of one of the most dependent in competition and extremely fun with rocket jumps in pubs.
Now you don't have a chance to keep up with any1, they can all run past you, rocket jumping is pointless, you hurt yourself a lot, and don't get anywhere. I havent played soldier as much lately, but I havent noticed any considerable jump nerf. Ill get on and experiment. Quote:
"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 6/18/2009 Posts: 1,422 Points: -25,484 Location: USA, Indiana
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defiance wrote:If the soldier thing isn't going to be changed, its going to quickly become one of the most boring classes in TF2, instead of one of the most dependent in competition and extremely fun with rocket jumps in pubs.
Its funny...even though the soldier is the "most nerfed" class on TF2, its still really really powerful when in capable hands. Pro's of Soldier, imo * Very accurate ** Most durable of the "accurate" classes (sniper, and to a lesser extent the spy) ** Probably the most mobile of the three "Accurate" classes. Spy has cloaking, but soldier has rocket jump. Doesn't move slowly like the sniper when zoomed in. * Fairly powerful ** Juggling most classes will probably kill them. Anything under 200 hp will probably die. ** Juggling also stops movement while in the air ** Can pester engineers from afar. Two coordinated soldiers could easily take out an engie nest. ** Kritz + Soldier = Practially unfair. ^^ * Fair amount of HP ** Good soldier/medi combos are very powerful...which is why competitive teams use them. * Rocket jump! * Has very few counter-classes. ** Pyro can airblast, but the frequency of the airblast is not the same as the speed at which you can shoot rockets. Smart pyros can only accurately reflect 1 of 2 rockets...as long as the soldier is spamming rockets. * Shovel. Better respect it. Cons * Second slowest class (I'm fairly sure its faster than the heavy) * Lots of damage falloff * Air Blast. =\ * Rocket jump really does too much damage, I think. * Really tricky to use ** Rockets are slow and susceptible to lag. Learning how to aim effectively takes a lot of time. Pretty much the polar opposite of the pyro. The solider needs some love in his update...but he's still a really good class. I know I can't convince Pigeon, but he's still a viable class. Hah! Maybe they're making the other classes better because the solider was so unbalanced before. XD ...yeah, probably not. Its a nice thought though. If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan My Backpack
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