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CTF Mapping Questions (ATTN: Kusa) Options
Charles
#1 Posted: : Sunday, October 22, 2006 6:55:01 PM
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Note: I've also posted this in the GU forums. Reply to wherever you want to (probably this one if you read it from here...).

I'm creating a new map of my own and am confident that it will be more scrim and 10-16 player friendly than ctf_connectors with changes to things such as size and weapon placement.  I'm trying to add several new elements to make it a bit different from other CTF maps, but I need help as I do not know how the flags and such work.  I would greatly appreciate it if someone such as Kusa or with as much knowledge as him would assist me.

I'm trying to implement a different flag system which would be more similar to normal CTF such as HL2CTF mod or most other CTF games.  I want it to be so that you can only capture your enemy's flag [i]if[/i] your team still has their flag in their base and that you can return your own team's flag by grabbing it, but [b]not[/b] by shooting it. I want it to be like that so a person couldn't shoot his team's flag to return it while an enemy was still holding it.  This way, people would actually have to hunt down the flag carrier even if they were too far away as long as they themselves had the enemy's flag.  It's much more fun and strategic that way, rather than just snatching the flag, running, and repeating with no thought on defense.  This is the major difference I want in my next and other future CTF maps compared to current ones.  Glowing DX9 flags do help for noticing differences, and teleporting flags rather than having them destroyed does help fix up the glitches.  Those are two nice changes made in some of your recent maps, Kusa.  Last but not least, I will be changing the flag's mass-scale to 0 so that it doesn't do the "ghost flag" glitch.  If the flag has normal physics, then the server and client will always agree on it's position everytime you can not see it and someone else shoots it while it desynchs if the mass-scale is custom.

Another nice change would be to give flag capping/returning scores only to individuals.  Only the brave rushing cappers deserve credit and should be awarded those nice 10 points, while people who return the flag should be awarded 3 or so points.  If possible, it would also be nice to give 3 points to whoever takes the flag out of the enemy's base, but not give 3 points for whoever picks it up outside the flag's home position.  This is to prevent point stacking but to still give points to those brave enough to grab the flag out of their base.
One thing I liked about Prisonriot was its scoreboard. The team scores always showed and it told in large text whenever someone picked up the flag. I'd like something similar like that where the scores are always shown on the top as well as whenever someone picks up or returns a flag.  However, unlike Prisonriot, it'd be nice to keep the text short and simple like in Kusa's maps. For example:
Rebels: 5
Combine: 3
Rebels have picked up Combine team's flag!
Combine has returned their flag!
One thing I didn't like about 2fort was the turret system.  Rather than giving turrets to the team that really needed them, the map gave turrets to whoever captured the flag first, who is obviously in the lead.  The losing team should truly be awarded the turrets.  I'd appreciate it so that turrets are given to the losing team. For example, having your flag get capped once will open one turret slot, while having it capped four times will open all four turret slots.  Is it possible to make them more true to real HL2 turrets where they can aim in non-linear directions but take a while to charge up?  I'll add in some object clips to ensure that they don't get shot out of the map and such.

Custom textures and models are very important things I want to add in my maps.  Because my next one will be set on a place like Italy, just like Avanti, I want to use Counter-Strike: Source's italy textures and models, which is used in Avanti.  To be specific about the models, I'd like the trees, plants, lamps, and umbrellas.  How did you make it so that players don't need to download the textures or models from the server but rather from the BSP without a .res file?

My last question relates to that of spawn points.  How do you make it so that players only spawn with certain weapons?  I know that weapon strip removes their current weapons, but how would you give them stun sticks and such without actually having to add weapon_entities in the spawn points?  For example, rather than having to add a ton of shotguns, I just want it so that everyone spawns with one.  My next question is, is it possible to make "selectable" spawn points depending on how well your team is progressing?  For example, your team would spawn in a room and there would be gates that would spawn you to certain places. Having your team get their flag get capped once would mean that you would be able to teleport to a spawn room closer to the base, having your flag get taken would open a spawn point in the middle of the map, etc.  This is to allow players to strategically think and spawn in important places at important times and also so that they aren't forced to become spawn camped.  Last, but not least, I want that initial spawn room to have a gate that opens after one minute like in Warpath in order to be more match-friendly.  mp_restartgame seems to ruin several CTF map settings and if there was a self-restarting tool in the map, it would definitely help a lot while allowing for things such as functioning jump pads.
I know this is a lot, but thanks.

Edit: How do I make it so that my map automatically sets the weapon and item spawn times to 30/20 and gravity to 600? Thanks!
llenta
#2 Posted: : Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:34:02 PM
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well you certainly have a lot of questions and i will do my best to answer what i can and hopefully some of it will help you.

Charles wrote:
I'm trying to implement a different flag system which would be more similar to normal CTF such as HL2CTF mod or most other CTF games.  I want it to be so that you can only capture your enemy's flag if your team still has their flag in their base and that you can return your own team's flag by grabbing it, but not by shooting it. I want it to be like that so a person couldn't shoot his team's flag to return it while an enemy was still holding it.  This way, people would actually have to hunt down the flag carrier even if they were too far away as long as they themselves had the enemy's flag.  It's much more fun and strategic that way, rather than just snatching the flag, running, and repeating with no thought on defense. 


i have given this some thought after playing the ctf mod and i will probably try to implement this into my next map if i can get it to work.  what i will try, and you can to, is have all your trigger_teleports on your capure point start inactivated.  then put another trigger around the spawn point for your own teams flag.  put an activator to that trigger (name of the flag would work) and set that trigger to ontrigger activate the first of your scoring triggers.  that way you can't capture the other teams flag unless your flag is in your home base.  if your own teams flag is taken from its spawn point you won't be able to score because your capture tiggers will deactivate until your own teams flag is safe back home.  i hope this makes sence to you.  i haven't tried this yet but in theory it should work (in my mind it does, but that means nothing).


Charles wrote:
Another nice change would be to give flag capping/returning scores only to individuals.  Only the brave rushing cappers deserve credit and should be awarded those nice 10 points, while people who return the flag should be awarded 3 or so points. 


this can be possible with some teleports.  right now, most maps have triggers around most of the map that will add 10 points to a team when that team scores.  what you can do if you want the scorer to have more points is to teleport him to a remote location (outside the normal score trigger) and have that remote locatation have another score trigger that awards more points.  now you can play with your teleport timing so that it can be almost instantaeous. 

Charles wrote:
If possible, it would also be nice to give 3 points to whoever takes the flag out of the enemy's base, but not give 3 points for whoever picks it up outside the flag's home position.  This is to prevent point stacking but to still give points to those brave enough to grab the flag out of their base.


i don't think this can be done, if it can, wow would that be cool.  this works in ctf because its built into the mod.  i don't know how you would do this in hammer.  maybe kusa knows a way, we will have to wait on his response. 

Charles wrote:
One thing I liked about Prisonriot was its scoreboard. The team scores always showed and it told in large text whenever someone picked up the flag. I'd like something similar like that where the scores are always shown on the top as well as whenever someone picks up or returns a flag.  However, unlike Prisonriot, it'd be nice to keep the text short and simple like in Kusa's maps. For example:
Rebels: 5
Combine: 3


this is done with a series of math counters and logic.  i can't remember off the top of my head right now how it is set up exactly, but next time i open hammer i can look at one of my maps and give a step by step set up on how to make it.

Charles wrote:
Rebels have picked up Combine team's flag!
Combine has returned their flag!


these are just game_text entities.  then just go into the flag and set the output to onphysgunpickup/nameoftextfile/display.  the only thing you want to do is go into your flags tab and make sure that you have the correct ones checked.  display for the person who picks it up is different then the one displayed for everybody else.  for the global message make sure that the all players box is checked.  but for the player who picked up the flag, that it is not checked.  that way the correct people see the correct messages.


Charles wrote:
One thing I didn't like about 2fort was the turret system.  Rather than giving turrets to the team that really needed them, the map gave turrets to whoever captured the flag first, who is obviously in the lead.  The losing team should truly be awarded the turrets.  I'd appreciate it so that turrets are given to the losing team. For example, having your flag get capped once will open one turret slot, while having it capped four times will open all four turret slots.  Is it possible to make them more true to real HL2 turrets where they can aim in non-linear directions but take a while to charge up?  I'll add in some object clips to ensure that they don't get shot out of the map and such.


the way it works on 2_fort and on other maps is that there is a door that is covering the turrets.  when the capture trigger is activated, one of the outputs is to open that door.  so yeah, you can set it so that when combine captures the rebel flag that it opens the door to the rebel turrets (instead of the combine turrets).  as for one door at a time i'm sure it can be done with some logic but i haven't given that any thought.  if i think of a way i will let you know. 

Charles wrote:
Custom textures and models are very important things I want to add in my maps.  Because my next one will be set on a place like Italy, just like Avanti, I want to use Counter-Strike: Source's italy textures and models, which is used in Avanti.  To be specific about the models, I'd like the trees, plants, lamps, and umbrellas.  How did you make it so that players don't need to download the textures or models from the server but rather from the BSP without a .res file?


i'm clueless when it comes to custom textures because my little understanding of them is that they are a pain in the neck.  there are people around here that do that sort of stuff so i'm sure when they see this thread they can jump in and answer that one for you. sorry.

Charles wrote:
My last question relates to that of spawn points.  How do you make it so that players only spawn with certain weapons?  I know that weapon strip removes their current weapons, but how would you give them stun sticks and such without actually having to add weapon_entities in the spawn points?  For example, rather than having to add a ton of shotguns, I just want it so that everyone spawns with one.  My next question is, is it possible to make "selectable" spawn points depending on how well your team is progressing?  For example, your team would spawn in a room and there would be gates that would spawn you to certain places. Having your team get their flag get capped once would mean that you would be able to teleport to a spawn room closer to the base, having your flag get taken would open a spawn point in the middle of the map, etc.  This is to allow players to strategically think and spawn in important places at important times and also so that they aren't forced to become spawn camped.  Last, but not least, I want that initial spawn room to have a gate that opens after one minute like in Warpath in order to be more match-friendly.  mp_restartgame seems to ruin several CTF map settings and if there was a self-restarting tool in the map, it would definitely help a lot while allowing for things such as functioning jump pads.
I know this is a lot, but thanks.


i don't know how the selectable spawn points work but i know kusa does so you will have to sit tight and wait for him on that one.

Charles wrote:
Edit: How do I make it so that my map automatically sets the weapon and item spawn times to 30/20 and gravity to 600? Thanks!

i believe that is a server side thing.  weapon spawn times and gravity i don't think you can set in hammer.


i hope this helps you.  don't be a stranger to the forums here.  we have a growing mapping community here that is quite active.  the more people we have around just means the more question can be answered in a shorter period of time. 
Kusa
#3 Posted: : Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:02:13 PM
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I replied this on GU forum:
http://www.gamerzunlimited.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5864

 

# some of the tips (bspzip, point_servercommand etc.) would also help you, llenta. =)
llenta
#4 Posted: : Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:17:20 PM
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yeah, i will look into that thanks.
Charles
#5 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:06:35 PM
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Here's something that may interest some of you CTF mappers, old or new.

http://gamerzunlimited.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=60359#60359

Kusa found out a way to make HL2DMCTF's flags play like HL2CTF's flags! For example, now you need to have your own team's flag in your base before capturing the enemy's flag. You can also return your own flag by shooting or picking it up, but you can't shoot it out of someone else's gravity gun as I predicted it would! It also tells the flag status every few seconds on the bottom, although it's a bit slow and unresponsive. I think it's easy to fix compared to the flag codes though or you could just remove the whole thing.
Business
#6 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:32:14 PM
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Hmmm. I can see returning the flag by picking it up with the Grav, but just shooting it to return? Unless it takes several bullets to 'break' (return it). Seems like just shooting the flag to return it would be too easy. like on 2fort, could you just shoot across the map with 357 to return the flag?
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
Kusa
#7 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:06:51 PM
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It means 'shoot' by the gravitygun.

Charles wrote:
It also tells the flag status every few seconds on the bottom, although it's a bit slow and unresponsive.

I thought you wanted this way, so I impremented it.

Charles wrote:
I actually like the blank time between whenever something happens to the flag because it indicates that someone touched or messed with it somehow.

EDIT: Nevermind. It seems I took the revese.

Charles
#8 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:20:37 PM
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The other version seemed faster, so I'll probably just copy the older version's text thing into the new one.
llenta
#9 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:22:18 PM
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i just got my own system working of almost the same thing except without the flag return feature.  i will take a look at that part and see about adding that it along with what i have already built.  i like the idea of not being able to capture the flag unless you have your own. 
Charles
#10 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:23:58 PM
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One odd thing is that the flag scoring is reversed. I know that it's easy to fix this (just editing the individual text objects, right?). Also, to make the flag status like the old one I liked, I just deleted the new sheep/counter things and copy + pasted the old flag status.
llenta
#11 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:09:59 PM
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if the scoring triggers work correctly and the text files just display wrong, then you have two options.  you can edit each text file to say what you want it to say, or change the i/o to display the correct file when its triggered.  so yeah, thats an easy fix.  don't know about the flag status though, i haven't had a chance to see what kusa did to change it.
Business
#12 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:27:17 PM
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Kusa wrote:

It means 'shoot' by the gravitygun.



Ahh that makes more sense. Returning the flag is a great idea. Do you get points for a return?
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
Charles
#13 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:00:10 PM
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I "fixed" both the flag status and team text for my own use.

However, I found out a glitch that would crash the server. I will later on post how the glitch occurs and how to structure your cap point so that it doesn't crash (with screenies!).
Kusa
#14 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:47:43 PM
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Charles wrote:
One odd thing is that the flag scoring is reversed.

I haven't been aware this for ages  ( just for the sdk map of course).

Quote:
(just editing the individual text objects, right?).

Make sure you check game_scorec (displays the round end message) if you take this way. Easiest way which doesn't screw the message is to edit the capture trigger (swap the rflag_score value and the bflag_score value in Outputs).

Quote:
I found out a glitch that would crash the server.

I must hear this for my education. =)

# I assume slideconstraint thing.

Kusa
#15 Posted: : Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:50:20 PM
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::ANY NAME:: wrote:
Kusa wrote:
It means 'shoot' by the gravitygun.
Ahh that makes more sense. Returning the flag is a great idea. Do you get points for a return?

It's up to the map designer.

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