GREATEST PRESIDENT EVAR!!!!!!

I'll be laughing four years from now when we'll still be looking at the patriot act looming above everyone's head, holyjaw.

@Lead: Obama will take care of that

@Delta62: Thanks to Bush, we're the first country to strike out and say fuck you, you goddamn muslim nations- stop fucking around (to put it in Layman's terms). We've established ourselves smack in the center of the middle east and no one around there is going to fuck with us now (Oh, Iran might cry and make pitiful threats but they haven't and won't actually DO anything.) Our presence there and takedown of Saddam also disrupts the once vastly expanding Taliban network, and any potential (or already existing?) deals between Hussein and the Taliban. A lot of people tend to be short sighted when considering the Taliban and Hussein; sure Iraq and Afghanistan aren't buddies and, obviously, have been at each others' throats a few times, but Taliban != Afghanistan (that's just a main base of operations) and alliances (in war... the muslims vs. the infidels) are CONSTANTLY changing (and the time between Desert Storm and 9/11 was a looong time in Alliance Years.) The fact that the Taliban had the balls to strike us as they did, when they did is indicative of the fact that they felt that they had some sort of one-up on us; hiding out in Afghanistan may be a huge part of that. Drawing attention and bringing heavy-fisted-force to that area of the world is a smart way of stopping another 9/11 before it happens. I can just be glad that Saddam started spewing about WMDs in Iraq because if not, we would have been forced to search cave by cave in Afghanistan. And I'd rather be fighting in the dessert than in the shitty terrain of the Afghani's. And yes, I do have friends in the armed forces. Two close friends of mine are Marines by the way.

Do I agree with the Patriot Act? No. Do I believe in warrantless wiretapping? No. Do I think it's all a by-product of the government wrought overhype exponentially increased by the media as a means of controlling us now so for if/when the shit hits the fan later? Yes. But domestic concerns are why we have this democratic system (and as it was mentioned earlier, prob in a different thread) and FREEDOM to use it in place. As far as foreign affairs go, well, only time will the true colors of Bush.

Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

police state?????


are you drinking a low fat soy latte right now?

typing this out on your macbook?

on your ikea couch?

all while watching will and grace on your plasma tv?


LET'S TAKE IT TO THE MAN, FUCK THE POLICE STATE RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!


lol

But we did not stop another 9/11 before it happened. What about the Madrid train bombings? This happened in 2004, years after 9/11 had occurred, and was concluded to be a result of an al-Qaeda-inspired terrorist cell. The US military had moved masses of forces into the middle east long before this point. The fact that Spanish civillians died as opposed to American civilians is quite trivial to me. Occupying a foreign country, and controlling the entire country by deploying armed troops throughout their cities is little more than controlling the land through fear. Many of the weapons that are being used against us were in fact provided by the United States government. Should we really be fighting fire with fire? Will we really win hearts and minds by use of bullets and hand grenades? If any foreign (or otherwise) force invaded my city, I would fight back.

 

Yeah, that's pretty weak.  Even if we do give people shit on here, it's in good fun and we don't mean it seriously.  That shit is fucked though.

I see your point. And thanks for not taking this personally like some people who I have started this discussion with previously.

What have events in Europe done to help our cause / efforts? Shortly after the Madrid bombings, Spain withdrew troops from Iraq, they did not send more (all troops were withdrawn May of 2004, Bombings occurred in March 2004). They also failed to show any more support for America's occupation of Iraq than they had before.