Immunity for warantless wiretappers Options
Business
#1 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:06:23 PM
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Sounds like bullshit to me.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/04/thank-you-telecom/


Quote:

The Bush administration has launched an aggressive campaign to pressure the House into passing retroactive immunity for telecoms that participated in the government’s warrantless wiretapping program.

Because they complied in illegally wiretapping their customers, telecoms currently face around 40 lawsuits. Yesterday in a speech to the National Association of Attorneys General, Bush sharply criticized Americans who are suing the telecoms:

Now the question is, should these lawsuits be allowed to proceed, or should any company that may have helped save American lives be thanked for performing a patriotic service; should those who stepped forward to say we’re going to help defend America have to go to the courthouse to defend themselves, or should the Congress and the President say thank you for doing your patriotic duty? I believe we ought to say thank you.

Bush is implying that Americans who oppose telecom immunity are unpatriotic. But the American people don’t owe the telecoms any gratitude. These corporations chose to break the law and profited greatly from doing so. (At least one company refused to comply with the Bush administration’s request because it knew the actions were illegal.)

Last week in a letter to Congress, the Computer & Communications Industry Association (CCIA) — which represents groups such as Google and Microsoft — said that it “strongly” opposes retroactive immunity: “To imply that our industry would refuse assistance under established law is an affront to the civic integrity of businesses that have consistently cooperated unquestioningly with legal requests for information.”

Transcript:

And I thank you for wading in. There’s a lot of legal complexities on the FISA renewal debate, but the real issue comes down to this: To defend the country, we need to be able to monitor communications of terrorists quickly and be able to do it effectively.

And we can’t do it without the cooperation of private companies. Unfortunately, some of the private companies have been sued for billions of dollars because they are believed to have helped defend America after the attacks on 9/11. Now the question is, should these lawsuits be allowed to proceed, or should any company that may have helped save American lives be thanked for performing a patriotic service; should those who stepped forward to say we’re going to help defend America have to go to the courthouse to defend themselves, or should the Congress and the President say thank you for doing your patriotic duty? I believe we ought to say thank you.




Are you an unpatriotic American?



edit: fixed up the nasty embed code

 


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Gunslinger
#2 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:08:31 PM
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wait what? is this still reality or am i in the twilight zone
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

BadHorsie
#3 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:10:18 PM
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It's real. CNN has been talking about it for awhile now. Cingular (AT&T) is one of the big ones behind it too.

 Heres the AT&T link : http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/whistleblower-f.html

 And more : http://w2.eff.org/legal/cases/att/

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Lead Salad
#4 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:20:37 PM
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Time to switch my phone service.
Xfactor
#5 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:35:16 PM
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It will pass.  They are going for the big terroist movements.  If you cheat on your taxes, screw people over, and are a felon of any type they could care less about you. 

I actually think this is fine.  IF it keeps me safe at night while I sleep I am fine with this action. 

Gunslinger
#6 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:38:41 PM
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what really bothers me is that they did this ILLEGALLY and think they're doing this country a service by spying on our conversations voice mail etc etc, are they gonna start going through our mail too if they havent already? these are dark times indeed, i feel more insecure than ever knowing theres a third party on my line
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

Xfactor
#7 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:52:40 PM
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Gunslinger wrote:
what really bothers me is that they did this ILLEGALLY and think they're doing this country a service by spying on our conversations voice mail etc etc, are they gonna start going through our mail too if they havent already? these are dark times indeed, i feel more insecure than ever knowing theres a third party on my line

 

If you are not doing anything who cares???

 

If you are a towel head talking about explosives and bombing something... then perhaps you should care.

 

Freedom does have a steep price.... We have had it easy for too many years.. 

 

Look up in the news what is going on in Israel right now.... That is craziness.  We are very fortunate we do not have that problem. 

Bike
#8 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:10:56 PM
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Xfactor wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:
what really bothers me is that they did this ILLEGALLY and think they're doing this country a service by spying on our conversations voice mail etc etc, are they gonna start going through our mail too if they havent already? these are dark times indeed, i feel more insecure than ever knowing theres a third party on my line

 

If you are not doing anything who cares???

 

If you are a towel head talking about explosives and bombing something... then perhaps you should care.

 

Freedom does have a steep price.... We have had it easy for too many years.. 

 

Look up in the news what is going on in Israel right now.... That is craziness.  We are very fortunate we do not have that problem. 

What they're intent to do with this act is understandable, but the fact that it gives them this degree of freedom legally is what scares.  A lot of things have potential to be abused, is all.

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Lead Salad
#9 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 7:15:17 PM
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Xfactor wrote:
Freedom does have a steep price.... We have had it easy for too many years.. 


Sure, let's pay for freedom with freedom. That's not asinine at all.

I'm so glad our society is full of knowledgeable, tolerant people who would sooner defend the right to feel good over the right of liberty.
Business
#10 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:13:01 PM
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Xfactor wrote:

If you are not doing anything who cares???

Dunno.

What if they outlawed sexual intercourse? I guess you wouldn't care if you weren't having it in the first place...right?

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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#11 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 8:26:53 PM
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Xfactor wrote:

If you are not doing anything who cares???

 

Why do you hate our freedom?

Xfactor wrote:

If you are a towel head talking about explosives and bombing something... then perhaps you should care.

 

Most towel heads are actually Sikh and not Muslim. You are thinking of sandniggers, or hajis. I don't know if you yourself are a sandnigger or a haji but right now your phone and internet connections are being recorded by the NSA, and they don't have a warrant.

Xfactor wrote:

Freedom does have a steep price.... We have had it easy for too many years.. 

 

We must destroy freedom in order to save it?

Who has had it easy?

Xfactor wrote:

Look up in the news what is going on in Israel right now.... That is craziness.  We are very fortunate we do not have that problem. 



We are only fortunate because we exterminated the people who were here before us effectively enough that by the time technology had progressed to the point where a small group of determined people could really fuck some shit up there was nothing they could.
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BadHorsie
#12 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:17:26 PM
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Xfactor wrote:

I actually think this is fine.  IF it keeps me safe at night while I sleep I am fine with this action. 

You were safe anyway. They're using scare tactics. Notice how like 95% of the color coded security alerts went away after Bush got his second term in office?

You miss a very big point: If they think you are doing something, they're going to come get you from the bed you sleep in at night.

Xfactor wrote:

If you are not doing anything who cares???

You're missing the point. They only have to think you're doing something.

 

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virus
#13 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 9:59:14 PM
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What's the difference between what the telecoms did here and what IPs (google, yahoo) did in China.  The IPs turned over info to the Chinese government which allowed them to imprison activists there for "subversion".  The target today is supposedly terrorists but tomorrow?  There already is a legal way for the government to get the wiretaps done -- through the FISA courts.  The government is not your friend and the basis of democracy is a healthy skepticism about the motives and actions of all government. 
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning. Smells like ... victory"
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#14 Posted: : Wednesday, March 05, 2008 10:33:39 PM
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virus wrote:
What's the difference between what the telecoms did here and what IPs (google, yahoo) did in China.  The IPs turned over info to the Chinese government which allowed them to imprison activists there for "subversion".  The target today is supposedly terrorists but tomorrow?  There already is a legal way for the government to get the wiretaps done -- through the FISA courts.  The government is not your friend and the basis of democracy is a healthy skepticism about the motives and actions of all government. 


As far as I've seen only Yahoo actually turned over info on "subversives". Google definitely does filter it's results for China though which I think is fundamentally wrong, but an order of magnitude less wrong than providing "evidence" against pro-democracy activists like Yahoo does.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


BadHorsie
#15 Posted: : Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:43:18 AM
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I just think all this is entirely wrong.

 

If you support John McCain and/or George W. Bush, please click here.

“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.� - Ben Bernanke
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