Poll Question : Which map cycle configuration do you prefer?
Choice Votes Statistics
This poll's suggested setup for all servers. 10 62 %
The current setup for all servers. 1 6 %
This poll's suggested setup for Tempest #1 ONLY. 1 6 %
This poll's suggested setup for Tempest #3 ONLY. 1 6 %
This poll's suggested setup for Tempest #4 ONLY. 0 0 %
I want changes, just not THESE changes! 3 18 %

3 Pages 123>
Proposed Maplist for All Tempest Servers Options
endyss
#1 Posted: : Wednesday, July 02, 2008 6:05:53 AM
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I come to everyone with my suggestions for a map configuration for the Tempest servers.  The genesis of the proposal isn't out of dissatisfaction (though I've sure missed playing cp_well) so much a relatively similarity of servers since Tempest #4 has come online, combined with my own informal observations of server populations.  Not to mention that the current setup can be a tad confusing to some.

I'd also preface this by saying that, if any of my assumptions on the current setup are incorrect (e.g., Tempest #1 already features only official maps), it's the result of legitimate confusion and perhaps indicative of further needed clarification.


PROPOSED The Tempest #1: Official Maps

Map Cycle (source):
  • Original Official Maps
    • CTF_2Fort
    • CP_DustBowl
    • CP_Granary
    • CP_GravelPit
    • TC_Hydro
    • CP_Well
  • Post-Release Official Maps
    • CTF_Well
    • CP_Badlands
    • PL_Goldrush
  • Official User-Created Maps
    • CP_Fastlane
    • CTF_Turbine
Comments:  Nothing from my experience kills a server faster than the words "Um, I've never played this map before...".  While Tempest #1 may have already be back to just this setup, I've frequently found cp_warpath playing there fairly frequently.  Love it though we all do, I really think at least one Tempest server should be there for players who just want the official maps.  The official user-created maps could be removed, but I think either 9 or 11 maps should be plenty for a map cycle.  The point here is predictability.  Players who want 24/7 2fort won't be wanting or expecting Dustbowl to pop up, and too many maps in the cycle make it impossible for people to rely on our server titles for much useful information.


PROPOSED The Tempest #2: 24/7 2FORT

Map Cycle:
  • CTF_2Fort

Comments:  No changes needed, #2 is often packed when everything else is empty.  With such a plethora of Instant Spawn and other bizarre mod maps out there pushing "24/7 2Fort", Tempest #2 is practically the foundation that keeps the community afloat on too many nights.  The only suggestion I can think of I mention at the end.


PROPOSED The Tempest #3: Custom Maps

Map Cycle:
  • CP_Castle
  • CP_Foldtown_V1
  • CP_Lazytown
  • CP_Science_B3
  • CP_Warpath2
  • CTF_Battle_Creek
  • CTF_Convoy_V2
  • CTF_Stronghold_B5
  • CTF_Subterranean
  • PL_DBHeights

Comments:  While I like the concept of Official Maps + Custom and that would seem to serve up the best of both worlds, I'm concerned that it will also dilute the base of people who just want one or the other.  People liking official maps won't see their favorite come up, and people looking for custom maps will log in to find everyone playing Dustbowl.  Without a massive cycle that destroys any notion of predictability, it will be hard for such a server to live up to expectations.
On the issue of the current Tempest #3, all Control Point maps, all the time... is there really a large demand for this type of server?  You almost never see other servers doing it (which can be a positive), and I really don't see it filling up very often.  Speaking for myself, short of a hankering for some non-stop 2Fort, I like to see a little more variety, and I almost never find myself saying, "Man, I just want some Control Point, and nothing else!"
The map list assembled above consists of a balanced mix of popular custom maps already on the server (with CP_Foldtown thrown in because I love the thing).  However, a map cycle of all custom maps would leave room to add and remove depending on community preferences.  For maps not currently on the server, I've heard good things about CP_Steel, CP_Desertfortress, and CTF_Rock2, to name a few.


PROPOSED The Tempest #4: Party Server

Map Cycle
:
  • Option A: All Official Maps, or 24/7 2Fort
  • Option B: All Custom Maps, some experimental or untested
  • Option C: A healthy mix of both A and B

Comments: Unlike the other Tempest servers where predictability of experience is the name of the game, this server would be about anything but!  Party hats, gravity votes, maybe even the German parental controls (metal robots, hamburgers, see this thread for details)!  At worst, it's an experimental server for maps, mods, and gameplay alterations that can't result in a more empty server than we currently tend to have.  But if the idea succeeds, people could come here for lighter side of the game with a bit of focus on wackiness.  With proper server administrative attentiveness, the server name in the TF2 server list and the in-game notifications on other Tempest servers could help broadcast what new and interesting things are in play on any given day/week.
As far as the map list goes, I hesitate to exclude much since the point is unpredictability.  I could see it working with unpredictable things on otherwise predictable maps -- I once played on a 24/7 2Fort server with 400 Gravity (Default = 800), and the ability for any class to cross battlements-to-battlements "Scout-style" completely changed the dynamics.  I could also see mixing in more experimental maps that might one day make it to the Custom Maps server, however that has a greater chance of emptying the server.  Ultimately, this could be the proper place for an Official + Custom maps, a balance of both, but with the emphasis on the altered experiences rather than the map cycle.


So what does everyone think?  I've only been back in the action for a couple months, but it seems the past few weeks have seen a precipitous dwindling of interest, whether that's in the Tempest servers or TF2 itself, I'm not sure.  All we as members of the Tempest community can do is adapt the place we play, try new things, and try to make people want to come here specifically.

Other suggestions to improve the server setup:
  • Forum Cleaning & Posted Map Cycle -- Regardless of whether or not map list changes are made as a result of this poll, the main Tempest forum should have a few of its sticky posts cleaned up. 
    • The "Win a reserved slot" thread should either be dumped or combined with the "Reserved slots for all donations" thread.
    • The "Post your x in the main forum" thread should definitely go, barring some problem with people frequently posting those in the wrong place.
    • The "Tempest mods and commands" thread should be dumped as long as the overwhelming majority of the functions are disabled anyway.  For future command issues, I think this could be combined with the "Tempest HLSTATSX" thread as a global "Tempest server information" sticky thread, along with...
    • A thread with the most current server map cycles and other information should absolutely be stickied somewhere so anyone can see what's on what server (not just what's currently being played, I'm aware the HLSTATSX page does this).  This could be integrated with the all-important but otherwise content-light sticky linking to the HLSTATS page and any other in-game commands players might find useful.
    • Final note on this suggestion: Being an admin, I can delete and sticky threads, so if given the go ahead by THE MAN, I'd be happy to make this suggestion a reality post-haste (no pun intended).

  • Revamped In-Game Welcome Graphic -- the current graphic works well enough (while the argument could be made that 90% of players jump past it almost instantly, it's still the most direct communication we have with the non-forum playerbase), but it's a little out of date and a little confusing. 

    At a minimum, it should definitely be modified to include Tempest #4.  The Rules are fine if a bit redundant, not to mention common sense (if someone gets banned for glitching or mic spamming, a) are they likely to be the kind of person to dispute it? and b) can they really say they had no idea hacking wouldn't be tolerated?).  I'd say keep or consolidate them.  The admin, stats, and WDFNews.com links are all good information, but the Forums already link to the first two.  I think the links could be consolidated, or better yet, ditch the graphic entirely in favor of an HTML Welcome, which can have links pointing people directly to any of those places!  Finally, adding Tempest #4 to the current Welcome will require some spacing modification to the way the other three servers are displayed (though with an HTML Welcome we might be able to allow players to click another server and jump straight onto it!).  As with the previous suggestion, I'm decent enough with either Photoshop or HTML, and would gladly volunteer to get any changes made.

  • RTV and Voting Limitations -- I've noticed plenty of times with RTV initiations, when they rain, they pour, until the server is run almost dry.  I don't know what Tempest's mcp_rtv_start setting (which specifies the number of minutes after a map starts that players may begin to rock the vote), but it should be long enough that helpless players don't feel like they're being dragged around from map to map.  I'd also suggest increasing the duration of the mcp_vote_duration setting, since I often hear people say they never had a chance to vote.  Lastly, I'm not at all sure what defines the options for which maps players can nominate or vote for (whether it's defined by the mapcycle.txt, or what), but we need to be sure players can't nominate a map not otherwise in the cycle.

  • No Timer for Tempest #2 -- a very minor thing compared to the others, but I've noticed some other 24/7 2Fort servers don't have any timer at all.  Long as Tempest #2's timer is, it's not really necessary and has the potential to eventually break up the flow of play with an unnecessary map load, offloading ADHD-riddled players in the process.

  • Update In-Game Notifications -- I obviously don't have access to the full list of all the in-game notifications that pass to the players, but someone with that access needs to make sure those messages are up-to-date with any changes that get made (via these suggestions or otherwise).  Also like the sticky threads in the forum, a periodic review for relevance and redundancy would be good.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


ErkDog
#2 Posted: : Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:09:52 PM
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Alot of good stuff bro..

I'd also say throw a map vote plugin on Temp 3 and Temp 4

Then you can see which maps the overall server population really like, and which they don't..

And you could cycle in a new map every couple of weeks for a less favored map.
Yargh
Stefi
#3 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 12:08:40 AM
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If only there was avanti on that custom map list it would be cool.
ErkDog
#4 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 12:30:35 AM
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Ahhhhh yes good catch, how foolish of me to neglect avanti!!@#!
Yargh
WDF?
#5 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 1:19:55 AM
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I noticed this thread... gonna wait until more votes count.

endyss
#6 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 2:42:02 AM
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Whew!  Thank the sweet Lord!

After the rather lengthy creation of that initial post, I was worried no one would pay much attention to it!  Hopefully more people will hop in and vote, and offer suggestions on what else could be improved (assuming they disagree with any of mine).


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


delta62
#7 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 5:03:27 AM
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Um, It won't let me vote

I pretty much agree with everything Endyss just wrote.

TEAM APARTMENT: No one rocks quite as hard as we do.
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K_Buz
#8 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 10:37:55 AM
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I don't like the idea of 4 being the "experimental", modded up server.

I get MUCH better pings there and would like to see it stay kinda as it.




Do not eat the contents of this post.
Dragon
#9 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 12:45:49 PM
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delta62 wrote:

Um, It won't let me vote

I pretty much agree with everything Endyss just wrote.



maybe triplebam voted before you. votes work on an IP basis.

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endyss
#10 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 12:56:22 PM
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K_Buz wrote:
I don't like the idea of 4 being the "experimental", modded up server.

I get MUCH better pings there and would like to see it stay kinda as it.


I get better pings there too, I simply differentiated it from the others because it's geographically different and I don't know about the possibility of juggling around the server names.

That said,  I absolutely wouldn't be opposed to making the current #4 hardware into any of Tempest #1, #2 or #3, and making one of the other servers #4, if such a thing is even feasible.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


WDF?
#11 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 3:22:14 PM
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I don't think the numbers of the servers mean anything when people join them.

WDF?
#12 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 3:45:36 PM
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Ok... I've made the changes to tempest 1... but I think the maplist for tempest 3 is weak.

Foldtown was a server killer. I don't even have battlecreek.

WDF?
#13 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 3:54:11 PM
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I think tempest 4 should take over tempest 3s cp maps only role and tempest 3 should be custom maps... but better ones than the ones listed above.

delta62
#14 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 4:01:31 PM
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I have never looked for a server that plays only custom maps. Ever. The vast majority of all custom maps are server killers in my opinion. Only maps such as Warpath, castle, avanti and lazytown seem to keep the general public interested.

Disadvantages of custom maps are mainly

1. Downloading the map if you don't already have it and

2. Being totally lost and getting pwnd for half an hour if you are unfamiliar with it.

I think it would be a good idea to include some very popular stock maps in here too, such as Dustbowl and Gravelpit; maybe even Badlands.

As for the server that is currently our tempest #4, Why not switch that to 1 or 2? It makes sense that our most frequently and heavily populated servers (which seem to be 1 and 2) have the powerful hardware. These are the servers that represent us to most of the TF2 community, and therefore we want these to have little or no crashes, lag spikes, etc.

When we used to have 4 servers, we could not fill all of them. This resulted in us taking 1 down (I think). We have 4 again now. Even now that we have 3 servers, it is rare (and has been, this is not anything new) to see all of them populated. Usually only 1 or 2 are in use. This being said, we might consider taking one of our older servers down in place of the new one we got from DP.

Another possibility is to make one of our servers a 24/7 warpath / dustbowl server. Some of the only times I've played on other servers is because EGO has some nice 24/7 servers which are loads of fun.

That's just my $.02 though.

TEAM APARTMENT: No one rocks quite as hard as we do.
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
the flying spaghetti monster skullfucked Bob's corpse.

Lead Salad wrote:
My ePenis is 10 feet long!

WDF wrote:
A pair in douchbaggery.

Stefi
#15 Posted: : Friday, July 04, 2008 9:41:49 PM
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i am just gonna say again We need Avanti pls pls, it is a great server filler imo plus its fun.
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