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Rank: Dutchess of Doodoo

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
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Indeed. I think that quote is from a book he wrote before becoming Fed Reserve Chairman Which just goes to prove this quote: Quote:"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton - Letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton, 1887 You wanna take this to Fuck Town? Oh gadzooks, yes!
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 5/7/2008 Posts: 254 Points: 12 Location: Alaska
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Greenspan is only a blip on the radar. He was merely a gear in the machine. The fed chair is directed by those higher up in the federal reserve system. The way I see the the chairman is but a press secretary for the federal reserve and a living martyr for the fed when things go wrong. It's the system that is as fault. Highly recommended video. The Money masters: How International bankers gained control of America. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&ei=f7CcSIeeIJnWrgPwt7EU&q=how+banks&hl=en Seems slow at first but it's actually quite brilliant and explains the system accurately.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,793 Points: 3,380 Location: Arizona
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I blame the war. The more national debt we have, the more our money is only as valuable as we say it is. We've been relying on that for years. People aren't buying it anymore. If we don't demonstrate fiscal responsibility at the highest levels, people will have a negative perspective of our dollar. Negative perspectives lead to conservation. Conservation leads to companies doing poorer. Rebate checks won't do jack shit against that moving train. You know what I did with mine? I paid for my car insurance - money going *poof* because I don't get in car accidents. And with how greedy insurance companies are, I'm sure it just ended up padding the pockets of the rich, rather than go towards raises for its employees - especially in a time of a national financial crisis! And it certainly doesn't help that everyone's having to spend an arm and a leg for gas. It's cliche, but I see Bush as one of the biggest reasons for all this. It's his war in Iraq that has escalated the rate of our national debt growth. It's his war that was suppose to guarantee us oil rights and consequently low oil costs. And he's overall done nothing to encourage faith in our economy except pathetic rebate checks that are little more than life preservers for those who are financially suffering. And of course our infrastructure continues to collapse. Unless we make a major U-turn here shortly, we're doomed to go the way of the Roman empire.
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Rank: Dutchess of Doodoo

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
Joined: 6/3/2006 Posts: 2,239 Points: 330 Location: $L
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Rikaelus wrote:I blame the war. The more national debt we have, the more our money is only as valuable as we say it is. We've been relying on that for years. People aren't buying it anymore.
If we don't demonstrate fiscal responsibility at the highest levels, people will have a negative perspective of our dollar. Negative perspectives lead to conservation. Conservation leads to companies doing poorer. Rebate checks won't do jack shit against that moving train. You know what I did with mine? I paid for my car insurance - money going *poof* because I don't get in car accidents. And with how greedy insurance companies are, I'm sure it just ended up padding the pockets of the rich, rather than go towards raises for its employees - especially in a time of a national financial crisis!
And it certainly doesn't help that everyone's having to spend an arm and a leg for gas.
It's cliche, but I see Bush as one of the biggest reasons for all this. It's his war in Iraq that has escalated the rate of our national debt growth. It's his war that was suppose to guarantee us oil rights and consequently low oil costs. And he's overall done nothing to encourage faith in our economy except pathetic rebate checks that are little more than life preservers for those who are financially suffering.
And of course our infrastructure continues to collapse.
Unless we make a major U-turn here shortly, we're doomed to go the way of the Roman empire. Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. You wanna take this to Fuck Town? Oh gadzooks, yes!
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
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Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
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Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. You are still missing the big picture. "Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws." Baron M.A. Rothschild
I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.. if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprave the people of their prosperity until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." .” Thomas Jefferson "I am the most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson after realizing what he'd done by unwittingly signing the federal reserve act. To understand the root of the problem you must understand first that the federal reserve bank, that is the bank that controls the creation of U.S. dollars, is a group of private banks. When the United States needs money they borrow it from the federal reserve bank and the U.S. government must pay back the fed with interest. We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars in interest. What makes it interesting is that the federal reserve does not have any money nor does it have any reserves. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. If this weren't bad enough then that money is filtered into the money supply and becomes inflation. Wonder why inflation occurs and is now occuring at such an incredible rate? Because the federal government can't tax the people enough and is borrowing over a trillion dollars per year to pay for our wars and the entitlement system. It has nothing to do with business whatsoever. We must remove the federal reserve and take from them the ability to create cash before we end up with a form of hyperinflation that killed Rome & Zimbabwe. What we are facing today is one of the primary reasons for the revolutionary war. Private banks controlling our currency.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
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HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. You are still missing the big picture. "Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws." Baron M.A. Rothschild
I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.. if the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency... the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprave the people of their prosperity until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." .” Thomas Jefferson "I am the most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is now controlled by its system of credit. We are no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson after realizing what he'd done by unwittingly signing the federal reserve act. To understand the root of the problem you must understand first that the federal reserve bank, that is the bank that controls the creation of U.S. dollars, is a group of private banks. When the United States needs money they borrow it from the federal reserve bank and the U.S. government must pay back the fed with interest. We're talking about hundreds of billions of dollars in interest. What makes it interesting is that the federal reserve does not have any money nor does it have any reserves. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. If this weren't bad enough then that money is filtered into the money supply and becomes inflation. Wonder why inflation occurs and is now occuring at such an incredible rate? Because the federal government can't tax the people enough and is borrowing over a trillion dollars per year to pay for our wars and the entitlement system. It has nothing to do with business whatsoever. We must remove the federal reserve and take from them the ability to create cash before we end up with a form of hyperinflation that killed Rome & Zimbabwe. What we are facing today is one of the primary reasons for the revolutionary war. Private banks controlling our currency. I don't think it practical to abolish it completely, but there should at a minimum be more controls around it. Right now it's a "get out of jail free" card to any *cough*republican*cough* who wants to constantly cut taxes for votes and start wars to line the pockets of their friends with gold. At least when Clinton was getting us *out* of debt we were going in the right direction. True, the federal reserve issuing money would still be a potential problem, but one not nearly put into practice as it is today. Mind you, I don't know what controls are in place today but considering how our economy is and that our debt is still growing, I'm guessing there aren't many. Ultimately the fault lies with the people, though. We constantly buy into the "less tax = good" line of thought, but our government NEEDS money to not only operate, but fix the problems that have been created when they haven't had the money they've needed in the past. Second, spenders need to be held accountable. Bush puts us on an economic crash course (and republicans are suppose to be the fiscally responsible ones?) and what happens? He gets re-elected. He should be sued for damages against the nation and made a penniless pauper. But of course that won't happen because of all the apologists who will blame everyone else except the person most directly responsible. Want to fix our economy? We need to fix our government first.
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Rank: Dutchess of Doodoo

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
Joined: 6/3/2006 Posts: 2,239 Points: 330 Location: $L
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Rikaelus wrote:
Want to fix our economy? We need to fix our government first.
We need to fix our money. Quote:"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of the pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the great fortunes like mine will disappear and they ought to disappear, for this would be a happier and better world to live in. But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp - (1880-1941) President of the Bank of England in the 1920's, the second richest man in Britain I can quote people like this all day, but if you can only see this issue in mere political terms, you should probably do some research about it on your own. As hexploit said, one of the main reasons for the American revolution was because of the laws forcing the colonists to borrow money from the central Bank of England. Politicians used to CAMPAIGN on the issue of a Central Bank in early America. We hardly talk about it anymore. How many candidates even mentioned it this election? We sure as hell don't learn about it in public schools anymore, and why should we when the Federal Government sets our education programs? You wanna take this to Fuck Town? Oh gadzooks, yes!
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Rank: Polio Power!
Groups: {pDs} Member, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
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Ya to bad our money is not backed by our gold anymore, after that happened it was only a matter of time before this happened. WDF?: I found a hot girl WDF?: Who lets me WDF?: Drink WDF?: Smoke WDF?: And play video games WDF?: ALL DAY shignog: and in the back door? WDF?: She's back door compatible WDF?: And it comes enabled by default WDF?: I need to teach sirus a lesson WDF?: Oh wait WDF?: That's called gay shignog: if there is a girl there its bi WDF?: lol WDF?: ok shignog: so its not so gay WDF?: Good enough

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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!
Groups: Ogamer, Registered User
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shignog wrote:Ya to bad our money is not backed by our gold anymore, after that happened it was only a matter of time before this happened. Uh there was a reason that an entire presidential debate was pretty much decided over whether the candidate supported the silver standard vs. the gold standard. silverwasp wrote:Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....
Yes.... Same parents WarMachine wrote:meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
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HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. Mmmmm. "The U.S. Treasury, through its Bureau of the Mint and Bureau of Engraving and Printing, actually produces the nation's cash supply; the Fed Banks then distribute it to financial institutions." - Wikipedia (so take with a grain of salt) It sounds like the Fed can, through distribution of money, control the amount available in the open market, but it cannot print or coin it, itself. At least according to what I've read.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
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Rikaelus wrote:HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. Mmmmm. "The U.S. Treasury, through its Bureau of the Mint and Bureau of Engraving and Printing, actually produces the nation's cash supply; the Fed Banks then distribute it to financial institutions." - Wikipedia (so take with a grain of salt) It sounds like the Fed can, through distribution of money, control the amount available in the open market, but it cannot print or coin it, itself. At least according to what I've read. I'm not educated enough to give you the nitty gritty details. What I do know is that the government borrows money from the fed and repays it with interest. So not only do we get stuck with outragous inflation because of the huge quantities of cash being created in extreme excess of the nations industrial growth BUT WE HAVE TO PAY INTEREST ON IT! Sickening.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
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HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. Mmmmm. "The U.S. Treasury, through its Bureau of the Mint and Bureau of Engraving and Printing, actually produces the nation's cash supply; the Fed Banks then distribute it to financial institutions." - Wikipedia (so take with a grain of salt) It sounds like the Fed can, through distribution of money, control the amount available in the open market, but it cannot print or coin it, itself. At least according to what I've read. I'm not educated enough to give you the nitty gritty details. What I do know is that the government borrows money from the fed and repays it with interest. So not only do we get stuck with outragous inflation because of the huge quantities of cash being created in extreme excess of the nations industrial growth BUT WE HAVE TO PAY INTEREST ON IT! Sickening. Well that's the thing. Cash isn't being created when the government borrows it - at least not directly. It's the 10 or so private bank institutions that are loaning the money to the government. Now it's possible that the money given to them by the Mint is being turned around and given to the government, but then the alternative is for the government to print the money itself, specifically for itself - that's even more dangerous. At least with the money being funneled through private companies there's some measure of accountability - even if we just ignore it and watch our national debt numbers increase. Take the private banks and "The Fed" out of the equation and you'll have a government that just makes money when it needs it with no accountability. Do we really want politicians to have direct and unaccountable access to money? We wouldn't even have a "national debt" number to gawk at and see how poorly the government handles money overall.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
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Rikaelus wrote:HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:HeXploiT wrote:Rikaelus wrote:Business wrote:Your mowing the weeds instead of pulling up the roots. We need to look at our monetary system itself. Then the issue becomes that companies go public and put themselves at the mercy of the stock markets which are, themselves, at the mercy of the masses' "feelings". To get transitory human gut-instincts out of the position of influence you'd have to get rid of the concept of "public" companies. Which means companies would have only their own money to build on, which would greatly reduce the growth potential of not only individual companies, but entire market sectors. When the U.S. government needs to borrow money the fed merely prints the money out of thin air. Mmmmm. "The U.S. Treasury, through its Bureau of the Mint and Bureau of Engraving and Printing, actually produces the nation's cash supply; the Fed Banks then distribute it to financial institutions." - Wikipedia (so take with a grain of salt) It sounds like the Fed can, through distribution of money, control the amount available in the open market, but it cannot print or coin it, itself. At least according to what I've read. I'm not educated enough to give you the nitty gritty details. What I do know is that the government borrows money from the fed and repays it with interest. So not only do we get stuck with outragous inflation because of the huge quantities of cash being created in extreme excess of the nations industrial growth BUT WE HAVE TO PAY INTEREST ON IT! Sickening. Well that's the thing. Cash isn't being created when the government borrows it - at least not directly. It's the 10 or so private bank institutions that are loaning the money to the government. Now it's possible that the money given to them by the Mint is being turned around and given to the government, but then the alternative is for the government to print the money itself, specifically for itself - that's even more dangerous. At least with the money being funneled through private companies there's some measure of accountability - even if we just ignore it and watch our national debt numbers increase. Take the private banks and "The Fed" out of the equation and you'll have a government that just makes money when it needs it with no accountability. Do we really want politicians to have direct and unaccountable access to money? We wouldn't even have a "national debt" number to gawk at and see how poorly the government handles money overall. This assumption is actually inaccurate. If you look at our history you will find that the national debt was actually very consistant up until the federal reserve act of 1913. Heck to that point the debt even got paid off every once in awhile. As soon as the federal reserve act passed the debt started spiraling out of control. National Debt by year:
06/28/1946
269,422,099,173.26
06/30/1945
258,682,187,409.93
06/30/1944
201,003,387,221.13
06/30/1943
136,696,090,329.90
06/30/1942
72,422,445,116.22
06/30/1941
48,961,443,535.71
06/29/1940
42,967,531,037.68
06/30/1939
40,439,532,411.11
06/30/1938
37,164,740,315.45
06/30/1937
36,424,613,732.29
06/30/1936
33,778,543,493.73
06/29/1935
28,700,892,624.53
06/30/1934
27,053,141,414.48
06/30/1933
22,538,672,560.15
06/30/1932
19,487,002,444.13
06/30/1931
16,801,281,491.71
06/30/1930
16,185,309,831.43
06/29/1929
16,931,088,484.10
06/30/1928
17,604,293,201.43
06/30/1927
18,511,906,931.85
06/30/1926
19,643,216,315.19
06/30/1925
20,516,193,887.90
06/30/1924
21,250,812,989.49
06/30/1923
22,349,707,365.36
06/30/1922
22,963,381,708.31
06/30/1921
23,977,450,552.54
07/01/1920
25,952,456,406.16
07/01/1919
27,390,970,113.12
07/01/1918
14,592,161,414.00
07/01/1917
5,717,770,279.52
07/01/1916
3,609,244,262.16
07/01/1915
3,058,136,873.16
07/01/1914
2,912,499,269.16
07/01/1913
2,916,204,913.66
07/01/1912
2,868,373,874.16
07/01/1911
2,765,600,606.69
07/01/1910
2,652,665,838.04
07/01/1909
2,639,546,241.04
07/01/1908
2,626,806,271.54
07/01/1907
2,457,188,061.54
07/01/1906
2,337,161,839.04
07/01/1905
2,274,615,063.84
07/01/1904
2,264,003,585.14
07/01/1903
2,202,464,781.89
07/01/1902
2,158,610,445.89
07/01/1901
2,143,326,933.89
07/01/1900
2,136,961,091.67
During the Roosavelt administration a law was passed that made it illigal for Americans to hold gold coin and they were forced to sell their gold to the government. Imo this pretty much sealed the fate of the American people.
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