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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
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I might be mistaken, but in the two most recent games I've played on the Tempest servers neither auto balance nor team select limits seemed to be working properly. This probably has something do to with the immunity from auto balance 'perk,' and they probably aren't being noticed by the game as players for these purposes. For example, it might be a 2 vs. 3 game with someone immune to auto balance on the team of 3. If another player joins, that new player can (and will sometimes, even through random team selection) join the team that currently has 3 making it a 2 vs. 4 game. Similarly, for auto balancing, each immune player isn't counted towards the player total for the team, so theoretically it there could be an 8 vs. 16 player game and if 8 of the players on the team of 16 are immune to auto balance, the game itself won't do anything about it. Naturally, people will end up switching out of some odd sense of innate goodness, but the main problem I find with this is the ability for new players to join a team that already has more players. 
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Rank: Administration
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Hmmm yeah.. that sounds buggy.
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Rank: The Illuminist
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Is this happening actively? The way it's set up is that it allows for teams to be offset by 2 players and then it switches people to even it out.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
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WDF? wrote:Is this happening actively? The way it's set up is that it allows for teams to be offset by 2 players and then it switches people to even it out.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by happening actively? Occuring more than once? In two separate games on two separate on servers on two separate days this didn't seem to work. I know that if the teams are offset by 2 or more players the "Teams will autobalance in 5 seconds" message will appear, but it hasn't when there were one or more donators on the larger team. In one instance the teams were 5 vs. 6 and a new player joined the team with 6 making it 5 vs. 7, which I'm fairly sure is wrong. Earlier today on Tempest 6, we ended up with 5 vs. 3 with a donator on the team of 5 and no auto balance message coming up at all for a few minutes even after several deaths by everyone on both teams, though the teams eventually evened out by players switching/new players joining.
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Rank: Administration
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I've seen a significant delay in the auto-balance piece in the past, so that doesn't surprise me. What would be of concern is people being able to join or auto-join a team with fewer players. If that's happening then I'd suspect it's a bug in the new autobalance-exception code.
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Rank: Polio Power!
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WDF? wrote:Is this happening actively? The way it's set up is that it allows for teams to be offset by 2 players and then it switches people to even it out.
I've been asking about this for the past 3 days.. I messaged Dragon and I even tried to catch you on Steam.. said you were online... It was actively happening over the weekend for sure. The teams at one point were way out of whack and never 'auto'-balanced.. I was on the short team both times, so couldn't switch to help make a difference in evening them out... happened to me on both Temp 2 and 9
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Rank: The Illuminist
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Fat Pigeon wrote:WDF? wrote:Is this happening actively? The way it's set up is that it allows for teams to be offset by 2 players and then it switches people to even it out.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by happening actively? Occuring more than once? In two separate games on two separate on servers on two separate days this didn't seem to work. I know that if the teams are offset by 2 or more players the "Teams will autobalance in 5 seconds" message will appear, but it hasn't when there were one or more donators on the larger team. In one instance the teams were 5 vs. 6 and a new player joined the team with 6 making it 5 vs. 7, which I'm fairly sure is wrong. Earlier today on Tempest 6, we ended up with 5 vs. 3 with a donator on the team of 5 and no auto balance message coming up at all for a few minutes even after several deaths by everyone on both teams, though the teams eventually evened out by players switching/new players joining. We don't use the standard auto balance. We use a custom one. Your examples put the teams off by a factor of 2, which is normal. If the teams were 8 vs 12, there'd be an issue, but that doesn't appear to be the case... at least from what I'm gathering here. Mystique, I got your message on steam (I'm sometimes not at home). I plan to investigate.
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Rank: I'm Banned For Being An Idiot.
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then you are not gathering correctly.... read the thread... in more than one instance, several people have witnessed that even though x team has more players than team Y, people can join team X. I have also personally witnessed this myself as well. I went to the restroom earlier on a map change. Came back. Teams were 4 v 6. Watched both teams kill each other, no auto balance message..... ever.... I know that servers cost money to run.... but for crying out loud, stop trying to find every way possible to entice people to donate... The 'fake' reserved slot is bad enough, preventing your regular players from joining full servers with auto join.... by adding this extra silliness, all you do is foster frustration by the team on the lesser side of the 4 v 6 causing more of them to quit, further emptying your servers..... consequently, decreasing the likelihood any given person is to donate, since the servers have fewer people on them, since people quit cause of the messed up auto balance. If ANY team has 2 or more players than another team, an auto balance should DEFINITELY happen regardless of donator status.... not rocket science... Yargh
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Rank: The Illuminist
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4 vs 6 is still only 2 player difference.
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Rank: Polio Power!
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WDF? wrote:4 vs 6 is still only 2 player difference. I've seen 4v6 get auto-balanced before. I could be wrong.
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Rank: Fuckstick
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ErkDog wrote:then you are not gathering correctly....
read the thread...
in more than one instance, several people have witnessed that even though x team has more players than team Y, people can join team X.
I have also personally witnessed this myself as well.
I went to the restroom earlier on a map change.
Came back.
Teams were 4 v 6.
Watched both teams kill each other, no auto balance message..... ever....
I know that servers cost money to run....
but for crying out loud, stop trying to find every way possible to entice people to donate...
The 'fake' reserved slot is bad enough, preventing your regular players from joining full servers with auto join....
by adding this extra silliness, all you do is foster frustration by the team on the lesser side of the 4 v 6 causing more of them to quit, further emptying your servers.....
consequently, decreasing the likelihood any given person is to donate, since the servers have fewer people on them, since people quit cause of the messed up auto balance.
If ANY team has 2 or more players than another team, an auto balance should DEFINITELY happen regardless of donator status....
not rocket science... 1) I think what's happening is: donators don't count as 'active' players on a team, in terms of auto-balance. So auto-balance will see a 5 v 3 as a 4 v 3 if there's one donator on the bigger team. The problem is that it should auto-balance the non-donators on that team of 5, instead of not activating auto-balance at all. 2) Ways of encouraging donations is up to the admin. I've even seen servers that give admin to its donators. A very sticky situation. I think we're still okay. 3) People don't quit that easily.
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Rank: The Illuminist
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I can change it to a 1 player difference... but I figured 2 player differences in team sizes wouldn't cause such tantrums. Holy shit. And erk, the servers are very expensive and I'll do all I can do find way to encourage people to donate to help me out with that. Thanks.
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Rank: Polio Power!
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WDF? wrote:I can change it to a 1 player difference... but I figured 2 player differences in team sizes wouldn't cause such tantrums. Holy shit.
And erk, the servers are very expensive and I'll do all I can do find way to encourage people to donate to help me out with that. Thanks. It doesn't really bother me. I think it's hilarious to beat a team when you're 2 players down.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?
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I think I misunderstood this. I figured that the immunity to autobalance was the problem since there was always a donator on the team with more people and that one game I was in was 15 vs. 9 at one point and no message appeared. A difference of 2 doesn't really matter, but it is rather sad to see people joining the team of 5 on a 4 vs. 5 game or joining a server to find yourself fighting 1 vs. 3... in two different servers. But I never heard anything about this 2 player difference . In large games things will work themselves out pretty quickly, but it's pretty awful in small games. Whatever. Thanks for clearing this up, WDF?. Oh yeah, does this plugin hide the "Player X joined team X" or "Player X was randomly assigned to a team message"? I haven't seen those lately either.
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Rank: The Illuminist
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I think it might. I'm working on solving these issues with it. It replaces the standard balance with a custom one. There is one downside in small games consisting of only people who donate... it won't autobalance those players. So, sorry for that... but large games won't have this issue.
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