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Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Newsie, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/6/2007 Posts: 987 Points: 783
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I debated posting this in the Hate To Be A Downer but... thread, but figured it was getting a little long in the tooth and thought this might take the discussion in a new direction anyway. This article was written by Harvard economist Jeffrey A. Miron (original link here). As some people's blogs have said, I think this guy's ideas make the most sense, and it's good to see somebody reputable out there besides Ron Paul supports this line of thinking. Interesting that no one in the current political establishment is advocating it. Without further ado, the libertarian solution to the current crisis. Jeffrey Miron wrote:CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (CNN) -- Congress has balked at the Bush administration's proposed $700 billion bailout of Wall Street. Under this plan, the Treasury would have bought the "troubled assets" of financial institutions in an attempt to avoid economic meltdown.
This bailout was a terrible idea. Here's why.
The current mess would never have occurred in the absence of ill-conceived federal policies. The federal government chartered Fannie Mae in 1938 and Freddie Mac in 1970; these two mortgage lending institutions are at the center of the crisis. The government implicitly promised these institutions that it would make good on their debts, so Fannie and Freddie took on huge amounts of excessive risk.
Worse, beginning in 1977 and even more in the 1990s and the early part of this century, Congress pushed mortgage lenders and Fannie/Freddie to expand subprime lending. The industry was happy to oblige, given the implicit promise of federal backing, and subprime lending soared.
This subprime lending was more than a minor relaxation of existing credit guidelines. This lending was a wholesale abandonment of reasonable lending practices in which borrowers with poor credit characteristics got mortgages they were ill-equipped to handle.
Once housing prices declined and economic conditions worsened, defaults and delinquencies soared, leaving the industry holding large amounts of severely depreciated mortgage assets.
The fact that government bears such a huge responsibility for the current mess means any response should eliminate the conditions that created this situation in the first place, not attempt to fix bad government with more government.
The obvious alternative to a bailout is letting troubled financial institutions declare bankruptcy. Bankruptcy means that shareholders typically get wiped out and the creditors own the company.
Bankruptcy does not mean the company disappears; it is just owned by someone new (as has occurred with several airlines). Bankruptcy punishes those who took excessive risks while preserving those aspects of a businesses that remain profitable.
In contrast, a bailout transfers enormous wealth from taxpayers to those who knowingly engaged in risky subprime lending. Thus, the bailout encourages companies to take large, imprudent risks and count on getting bailed out by government. This "moral hazard" generates enormous distortions in an economy's allocation of its financial resources.
Thoughtful advocates of the bailout might concede this perspective, but they argue that a bailout is necessary to prevent economic collapse. According to this view, lenders are not making loans, even for worthy projects, because they cannot get capital. This view has a grain of truth; if the bailout does not occur, more bankruptcies are possible and credit conditions may worsen for a time.
Talk of Armageddon, however, is ridiculous scare-mongering. If financial institutions cannot make productive loans, a profit opportunity exists for someone else. This might not happen instantly, but it will happen.
Further, the current credit freeze is likely due to Wall Street's hope of a bailout; bankers will not sell their lousy assets for 20 cents on the dollar if the government might pay 30, 50, or 80 cents.
The costs of the bailout, moreover, are almost certainly being understated. The administration's claim is that many mortgage assets are merely illiquid, not truly worthless, implying taxpayers will recoup much of their $700 billion.
If these assets are worth something, however, private parties should want to buy them, and they would do so if the owners would accept fair market value. Far more likely is that current owners have brushed under the rug how little their assets are worth.
The bailout has more problems. The final legislation will probably include numerous side conditions and special dealings that reward Washington lobbyists and their clients.
Anticipation of the bailout will engender strategic behavior by Wall Street institutions as they shuffle their assets and position their balance sheets to maximize their take. The bailout will open the door to further federal meddling in financial markets.
So what should the government do? Eliminate those policies that generated the current mess. This means, at a general level, abandoning the goal of home ownership independent of ability to pay. This means, in particular, getting rid of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, along with policies like the Community Reinvestment Act that pressure banks into subprime lending.
The right view of the financial mess is that an enormous fraction of subprime lending should never have occurred in the first place. Someone has to pay for that. That someone should not be, and does not need to be, the U.S. taxpayer. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 5/7/2008 Posts: 254 Points: 12 Location: Alaska
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We caused this mess. Maybe we need to go down in flames to finally repent of our national stupidity.
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!
Groups: Ogamer, Registered User
Joined: 5/9/2006 Posts: 1,666 Points: 2,478 Location: La Habra, Orange, CA
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I'm only in favor of the 700$B bailout if we also pass the 500$B Post-Bailout that there've been talks of. We need to think about now, not what might happen in the future. Right now, American screwups are forcing European and Asian markets to go screwy. Let me rephrase this: Our mistakes are causing monetary loss in foreign countries. Now they're looking at us, seeing weakness, and sticking their hands wherever we don't slap it away -- and we're not slapping away. We don't want foreign interests involved in our monetary institutions. +1 vote for 1.2$T bailout plans. silverwasp wrote:Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....
Yes.... Same parents WarMachine wrote:meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/13/2008 Posts: 1,509 Points: 2,004
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While my heart says: "yeah lets have these wallstreet jerks pay for thier leveraged profiteering" My head is saying...well we are fucked either way.
Miron, In other words, thinks we should allow it fail and continue to sell off American assets to the highest foreign bidder and continue our downward spiral of wealth transfer. Well that is not especially good for us either in the long run. Of course maybe we can let it all fail and hope to bring down the other G8 countries economies with us so everybody is still on an even keel.
Quote:
"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
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Rank: You're gonna stick that where?

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 12/28/2007 Posts: 317 Points: 78 Location: Eastern Coast U.S.
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"Lets fix the problem of bad government with more government" Bullshit, while government intervention did play a role, this would never have happened had the SEC done its job and actually regulated these companies preventing predatory lending. This is a problem of free market policies not governmental blunders. Suffers from the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency — nay — the very existence of George W. Bush
AKA
Bush Derangement Syndrome
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Rank: Coathanger Abortion

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin
Joined: 5/17/2006 Posts: 3,487 Points: 1,990 Location: Undisclosed Location
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That's exactly it, you let the system fail and wind up with Shanghai, Dubai, or wherever becoming the new capitol of capital. I'm not a nationalist but that opens up a pretty clear new major weakness on the national security front. Here's an idea, which is probably more ironic than feasible - maybe we can get the IMF to bail us out? Razor wrote:Killing people is good therapy.  
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Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 1/13/2008 Posts: 1,509 Points: 2,004
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:That's exactly it, you let the system fail and wind up with Shanghai, Dubai, or wherever becoming the new capitol of capital. I'm not a nationalist but that opens up a pretty clear new major weakness on the national security front.
Here's an idea, which is probably more ironic than feasible - maybe we can get the IMF to bail us out?
heh, the IMF doesn't have the money to throw down 700+ billion. It already has a projected deficeit from trying to stop gold prices from rising and the dollar from falling. Quote:
"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
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Rank: Polio Power!

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 8/1/2008 Posts: 658 Points: 81 Location: SoCal
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Like it matters at this point. Apparently the $700billion deal hasn't unfrozen the credit market. GG Washington.
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Rank: Dutchess of Doodoo

Groups: Registered User, Server Admin, WDFNews.com Official Mapper
Joined: 6/3/2006 Posts: 2,239 Points: 330 Location: $L
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Some spam email I got: Quote:What is a billion?a.. A billion seconds ago it was 1959.
b.. A billion minutes ago Jesus was alive.
c.. A billion hours ago our ancestors were living in the Stone Age.
d.. A billion days ago no-one walked on the earth on two feet.
e.. A billion dollars ago was only 8 hours and 20 minutes, at the rate our government is spending it.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town? Oh gadzooks, yes!
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,793 Points: 3,380 Location: Arizona
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My vote goes to a $700 billion bailout to the people, distributed evenly among all those 18 years or older. Is it socialist to give tax payer money to the people evenly? Sure. But can you imagine this country if everyone had the money to pay off their debt and their homes, invest; secure their retirement and medical insurance... Fuck "trickle-down" methodology. Big businesses, not to mention out entire economy, grows from the ground up. It only makes sense that any attempt to jump start it with an influx of funds needs to also go from the ground up. They seem to think that way where tax rebates are concerned, so why not with this $700 billion?
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Rank: Coathanger Abortion

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin
Joined: 5/17/2006 Posts: 3,487 Points: 1,990 Location: Undisclosed Location
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I vote we kill the bankers, confiscate their property, and then distribute it to the working class. Problem solved. Razor wrote:Killing people is good therapy.  
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Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Newsie, Registered User, Server Admin
Joined: 11/6/2007 Posts: 987 Points: 783
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:I vote we kill the bankers, confiscate their property, and then distribute it to the working class. Problem solved. Sounds great! Kill the nobles rich and give away their stuff, they're all evil anyway, right? But... um... then what would we do to fund all those entitlement programs like welfare and Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and education and universal healthcare? And don't we have the right to affordable housing too? I mean, I'm just saying it could be tough with like a third of Americans not paying any income taxes, and the top earners being, well, dead. HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
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Rank: Administration

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User, Server Admin, Administration
Joined: 3/27/2008 Posts: 1,793 Points: 3,380 Location: Arizona
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" I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale." - Thomas Jefferson We need to find a way to clone Jefferson with all his adult knowledge, and then name him president for a term no less than 20 years. Maybe he could clean some of this bullshit up - one way or another. Of course.. he may find it easier to simply start a revolution and found yet another new country.
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Rank: Polio Power!

Groups: {pDs} Member, Registered User
Joined: 8/1/2008 Posts: 658 Points: 81 Location: SoCal
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endyss wrote:Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:I vote we kill the bankers, confiscate their property, and then distribute it to the working class. Problem solved. Sounds great! Kill the nobles rich and give away their stuff, they're all evil anyway, right? But... um... then what would we do to fund all those entitlement programs like welfare and Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and education and universal healthcare? And don't we have the right to affordable housing too? I mean, I'm just saying it could be tough with like a third of Americans not paying any income taxes, and the top earners being, well, dead. Not necessarily. They kill the top earners and take their income and become the top earners themselves... meaning they have to be killed too.
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Rank: Coathanger Abortion

Groups: {pDs} Member, Server Admin
Joined: 5/17/2006 Posts: 3,487 Points: 1,990 Location: Undisclosed Location
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RichardAwesome wrote:endyss wrote:Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:I vote we kill the bankers, confiscate their property, and then distribute it to the working class. Problem solved. Sounds great! Kill the nobles rich and give away their stuff, they're all evil anyway, right? But... um... then what would we do to fund all those entitlement programs like welfare and Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security and education and universal healthcare? And don't we have the right to affordable housing too? I mean, I'm just saying it could be tough with like a third of Americans not paying any income taxes, and the top earners being, well, dead. Not necessarily. They kill the top earners and take their income and become the top earners themselves... meaning they have to be killed too. Exactly. Added benefit: Population control. Our success is guaranteed. More seriously, this is exactly the kind of situation where nationalizing segments of the economy is the better of the evils, at least from the perspective that minimizing instability is a worthwhile goal. Razor wrote:Killing people is good therapy.  
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