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this is what democracy looks like Options
Lead Salad
#16 Posted: : Wednesday, June 17, 2009 7:45:04 PM
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Baby steps are better than sitting on your ass. I hope something good comes out of this.
bragr
#17 Posted: : Wednesday, June 17, 2009 8:07:54 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Baby steps are better than sitting on your ass. I hope something good comes out of this.

This is applicable to just about every part of life, and especially here.
defiance
#18 Posted: : Wednesday, June 17, 2009 11:05:48 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Baby steps are better than sitting on your ass. I hope something good comes out of this.

Indeed. You can look back and say "Wow...what a shit storm they shouldn't have bothered" However, history has proven that a free democratic country does not come freely. We had to fight multiple wars to get ours. A lot of nations had to fight the british/french/spanish to get their freedom. Now a days its turning to civil wars for a country to become a democratic state. I think Iran is headed in the right direction. However, i think they need to do it on their own, everytime a nation steps in, there is always a problem between the people that step in to help, and the people that are taking over. Even though it wasn't a real election, it was a step in the right direction. It's too bad we are in Iraq, a lot of people agree that Iran was the bigger threat. My brother-in-law is going on his second tour to Iraq in july. He said it's hard to fight there when you know it's not helping a lot, and the country is getting better, but even the Iraqis don't want to help themselves, they just want the Army to do everything for them. To me it seems like there are more people in Iran that would be ready to help change their country for the better.
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#19 Posted: : Saturday, June 20, 2009 1:32:31 PM
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Full scale crackdown has begun. These kids are chanting something like, "Death to the dictator, death to dictatorship".



Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#20 Posted: : Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:33:32 AM
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Apparently Iranian women are streetfighting badasses.

Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


tpractice
#21 Posted: : Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:35:11 AM
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I think the real story are these two guys. It looks like a power play with the guy on the top fanning the flames(His daughter has been seen speaking at the opposition rallies), and has been at odds with the wacko below for some time.


Former president and influential cleric Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani. One problem with that is that the wacko is ex-military and might command some much needed loyalty from the Iranian military. If he gets that backing, look for a Tianamen square type ending to this, sadly.




Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#22 Posted: : Sunday, June 21, 2009 2:41:23 AM
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tpractice wrote:
I think the real story are these two guys. It looks like a power play with the guy on the top fanning the flames(His daughter has been seen speaking at the opposition rallies), and has been at odds with the wacko below for some time.


Former president and influential cleric Ayatollah Hashemi Rafsanjani. One problem with that is that the wacko is ex-military and might command some much needed loyalty from the Iranian military. If he gets that backing, look for a Tianamen square type ending to this, sadly.






It's not really clear that this is the case. Thus far he hasn't made any public statement, he hasn't even been seen in public. His home and/or offices were attacked sometime within the past 48 hours. Maybe he is making a power play behind the scenes, or maybe he is on the run or imprisoned or dead. It's not really clear wtf is actually going on. Odds are good though, he is the wealthiest man in Iran by many estimates and reformists turned into revolutionaries are a good weapon if you can aim them right.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#23 Posted: : Sunday, June 21, 2009 5:25:36 PM
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<div><object width="420" height="339"><param name="movie" value="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9ndxl" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><embed src="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9ndxl" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="420" height="339" allowFullScreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></object><br /><b><a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/x9ndxl">Battle w/ Police - Tehran, Iran - June 20th 2009</a></b><br /><i>by <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/mightier-than">mightier-than</a></i></div>
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Gunslinger
#24 Posted: : Monday, June 22, 2009 5:24:34 PM
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"Neda" Turned into a Martyr
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

endyss
#25 Posted: : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 6:43:12 AM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
Baby steps man.

It is a democratic theocracy, or at least it was on paper. The middle east has a long tradition of sham elections, Saddam used to win in Iraq with like 99% of the vote every couple years. Post-revolution Iran has had at least a more convincing illusion of democratic processes, even if the religious nuts could ultimately do whatever they want and often did. Or at least they could until now. There really isn't any telling where this will lead, there are certainly elements trying to turn it against the state in general so this could ultimately be your 21st century French Revolution.

Don't mistake me, I think what's going on there is excellent and definitely steps in the right direction. My initial reaction was to what looked like a brief popular outcry about the election results, and all signs now seem to indicate it has the potential to turn into something much more. I'm in favor of that and in giving the Iranian people out words of support, but I still have my doubts that it's not just going to turn into a bloodbath (and soon).


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


tpractice
#26 Posted: : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:43:38 PM
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[color=blue]Iranian Blog: IRGC Tehran Commander Fired

An unidentified Iranian blog, Cherikonline, reports that Ali Fazli, commander of Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC) in Tehran, was fired yesterday from his position for only "minimally" following instructions from Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei to put down the June 20 demonstrations together with the Basij.

The blog states that IRGC members refused to participate in putting down the rioting, and that senior IRGC commanders were compelled to use alternative forces.

.................

Showdown Iran: Election Stands As Rev Guard En-Route
The Guardian Council has ruled that there were no significant election difficulties to warrant an annulment of the vote, the election will stand. The NYT's reports the Obama administration claims to be strugglingfrom a lack of information from on the ground in Iran. They are unsure of the size of the anti-government push and as regards any potential government rifts. One can thank the Dems for not wanting much of a CIA field capability over decades for that.

Michael Ledeen reports that a caravan of Revolutionary Guard troops are en-route to Tehran. Also, that protesters are striking at the Basiji in hit and run attacks, catching them alone, or in small groups. Khamenei is said to have left Tehran for a mountain retreat, while giving the Rev Guard carte blanche to put down the revolt. Read more at link.

Supporters of Ahmadinejad are planning to gather for a protest at the British Embassy. Those protests could spread to the German and French embassies, as well. Iran is also recalling its UK ambassador from London for consultations.

While anti-government forces are calling for those arrested to be released unconditionally, the government is promising that the judiciary will teach them a lesson. It's show down time in Iran.

As of now, no reports on a general strike that was said to have been planned for today, including in the oil fields, markets and elsewhere.



I think it's coming to a head
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#27 Posted: : Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:07:26 PM
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tpractice wrote:


I think it's coming to a head


Assuming this is true, it's big time serious. If the schism is in the Revolutionary Guards there is a very real chance they could take this thing all the way. At the very least the non-compliance will give the fuckers something to think long and hard about. Even if for no other reason than that the middle east has a long history of assassination. I think that if this thing drags out and doesn't seem to go anywhere the regime will have been seriously put on notice of how things will go for them if they push their crap to far.

I'm skeptical this is true, I'm sure they have a mix of ideologies but it is pretty rare for militaries to break from the official government interpretation of reality, especially to the point where they would so blatantly disobey orders. Although I imagine being ordered to kill your fellow citizens might change that for some military types but generally they are True Believers and will ride it to the end.

Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Gib_Omelet
#28 Posted: : Wednesday, June 24, 2009 8:17:45 AM
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Without sword, she falls.
Beautiful eyes seeking truth.
What have they done here?


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#29 Posted: : Friday, June 26, 2009 9:49:49 AM
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Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


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