Poll Question : Bush: Great president, or the greatest president?
Choice Votes Statistics
Great President 5 33 %
The Greatest President 3 20 %
funny option 7 46 %

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Bush: Great President, or the Greatest President? Options
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#16 Posted: : Sunday, February 24, 2008 12:02:57 AM
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haha, politics are fun.

I don't think it will be 50 states forever.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
HolyJaw
#17 Posted: : Monday, February 25, 2008 7:46:29 PM
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delta62 wrote:
What have events in Europe done to help our cause / efforts? Shortly after the Madrid bombings, Spain withdrew troops from Iraq, they did not send more (all troops were withdrawn May of 2004, Bombings occurred in March 2004). They also failed to show any more support for America's occupation of Iraq than they had before.


All i can say to that is that it increased awareness of the vulnerability of everyone else. Ever since America abandoned the isolation policy and started taking part in other peoples' wars (and became policemen of the world).. (and completely renovated our military, etc.).. we've been viewed as the biggest, loudest, and therefore foremost potential target (especially since we were already the target of ideological hatred already.) Therefore it was no surprise when the terrorists brought the fight to our soil; let's face it we can't keep the Mexicans and Asians out, how the hell are we going to keep the Muslim extremists out? So, in the end, no one was surprised.

But then the hot spots spread to areas other than America, and awareness was raised. Euro countrymen went from watching attacks on TV, detached from the human souls here in the U.S., to watching events on TV, recognizing an area much closer to home. Sure Spain withdrew the troops, but that could mostly be due to raised awareness of their own vulnerabilities and mortality in this particular (ideological) war.
silverwasp wrote:
Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....

Yes.... Same parents


WarMachine wrote:
meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#18 Posted: : Monday, February 25, 2008 9:47:49 PM
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HolyJaw wrote:


In regards to the Madrid train bombins (and the few incidents in EU these past years), I take a detached look at the events and it helps me personally to understand the significance of them. Backtracking, when I mentioned delaying/stopping another 9/11, I meant it domestically. The entire European union, well, except England kind of, has been fighting against the US every step of the way. The day I saw that there had been train bombings in Madrid, I swear I felt a collective gasp and shudder worldwide when another country was brought into the foray. Terrorism had hit ANOTHER country, and now it was time to find out what they planned to do about it.

Simply put; those wasted, horrifically ended human lives helped us in our goal. Am I saying that if we knew of these in advance we shouldn't've stopped them? Absolutely not. But since it has happened it's silenced the naysayers to a small extent and sure as hell has helped us reached our goal (see my previous post.)


You are confusing cause and effect and totally misrepresenting EU foreign policy and Europe's long history with terrorism. I don't think there is a country in Europe that has not experienced significant terrorism.
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#19 Posted: : Monday, February 25, 2008 9:53:23 PM
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delta62 wrote:

I see your point. And thanks for not taking this personally like some people who I have started this discussion with previously.

What have events in Europe done to help our cause / efforts? Shortly after the Madrid bombings, Spain withdrew troops from Iraq, they did not send more (all troops were withdrawn May of 2004, Bombings occurred in March 2004). They also failed to show any more support for America's occupation of Iraq than they had before.

 



Spain withdrew its troops because the vast majority of Spanish citizens were opposed to the war and were pissed at Aznar for being Bush's bitch. Combine that with the clumsy way he tried to pin the bombings on ETA and it's no wonder his entire national security stance was discredited. After Germany I think Spain has the highest percentage of anti-war people in the EU. Europeans generally view the occupation of Iraq as a catalyst for terrorism and not as "the central front in the War on Terror" as is official US policy, withdrawing troops from Iraq is the obvious rational thing to do. If you want a measurement of EU commitment to anti-terror efforts look at the extensive intelligence sharing that goes on and all the blood and money they are funneling into the real fronts in the fight against Islamist guerrilla movements.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


BadHorsie
#20 Posted: : Monday, February 25, 2008 9:59:12 PM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
HolyJaw wrote:


In regards to the Madrid train bombins (and the few incidents in EU these past years), I take a detached look at the events and it helps me personally to understand the significance of them. Backtracking, when I mentioned delaying/stopping another 9/11, I meant it domestically. The entire European union, well, except England kind of, has been fighting against the US every step of the way. The day I saw that there had been train bombings in Madrid, I swear I felt a collective gasp and shudder worldwide when another country was brought into the foray. Terrorism had hit ANOTHER country, and now it was time to find out what they planned to do about it.

Simply put; those wasted, horrifically ended human lives helped us in our goal. Am I saying that if we knew of these in advance we shouldn't've stopped them? Absolutely not. But since it has happened it's silenced the naysayers to a small extent and sure as hell has helped us reached our goal (see my previous post.)


You are confusing cause and effect and totally misrepresenting EU foreign policy and Europe's long history with terrorism. I don't think there is a country in Europe that has not experienced significant terrorism.

Yeah. Terrorism has been around since... forever.

Scotland (The Braveheart movie, for example)

The spanish inquisition.

Lots and lots of examples throughout history.

 

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HolyJaw
#21 Posted: : Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:01:17 AM
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BadHorsie wrote:

[quote=Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart]
Yeah. Terrorism has been around since... forever.

Scotland (The Braveheart movie, for example)

The spanish inquisition.

Lots and lots of examples throughout history.

 



I meant terrorism in the context of what has been thrown against America.
silverwasp wrote:
Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....

Yes.... Same parents


WarMachine wrote:
meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
BadHorsie
#22 Posted: : Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:29:55 AM
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Well they didn't have skyscrapers and airplanes back then, but don't mistake what terrorism is.

 

If you support John McCain and/or George W. Bush, please click here.

“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.� - Ben Bernanke
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#23 Posted: : Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:41:12 AM
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HolyJaw wrote:
BadHorsie wrote:

[quote=Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart]
Yeah. Terrorism has been around since... forever.

Scotland (The Braveheart movie, for example)

The spanish inquisition.

Lots and lots of examples throughout history.

 



I meant terrorism in the context of what has been thrown against America.


This is one of the many problems with the whole War on Terror formulation. What the fuck is TERROR? Why are the thousands of terrorist attacks carried out by ETA or the IRA not terrorism as defined by the War on Terror? The real answer is that there is no difference, except that the ETA and the IRA didn't inspire the same kind of totalitarian madness that right-wingers push as the solution to TERROR and so they must be dismissed because the new TERROR is not like the old ones.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


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