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House Passes Healthcare reform Options
Gunslinger
#1 Posted: : Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:42:09 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8579322.stm
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

Business
#2 Posted: : Sunday, March 21, 2010 9:03:18 PM
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I'm not even sure what is in the bill anymore.

I just hope it helps people.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
GreyWolf
#3 Posted: : Monday, March 22, 2010 4:23:48 PM
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http://www.comcast.net/a...h.Overhaul.Baby.Killer/

Douche?

Turd Sandwhich?

Lying Moron Who Stoops To Publicity Stunt To Try To Save His Reelection Hopes?



Let the voting begin!
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Bush Derangement Syndrome

HolyJaw
#4 Posted: : Monday, March 22, 2010 10:37:17 PM
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HOW THE HEALTH CARE BILL WILL AFFECT YOU (By an American newspaper... not some trashy "European" source.)

http://www.nytimes.com/interact.../health-care-reform.html

For most of us:

"If you are insured through your employer" wrote:
You can keep your current plan — or — you can buy coverage through new state-run insurance marketplaces, called “exchanges,” starting in 2014.

If you keep your current plan

*

Within six months, the plans will have to stop some practices, like setting lifetime limits on coverage and canceling policy holders who get sick. They will also have to allow children to stay on their parents’ policies through age 26 and cover children with pre-existing conditions, but can still deny adults with medical problems until 2014.
*

Insurers will have to pay a 40 percent excise tax on high-value group plans – those in which premiums for families are $27,500 or more, for instance – starting in 2014. Experts say the tax will likely be passed on to employees through higher premiums or lower benefits and wages.
*

Starting in 2013, flexible spending accounts, which allow users to escape taxes on many medical expenses now, will be limited. There will be a $2,500 maximum on accounts that typically carry $4,000 or $5,000 limits now, and you will no longer be able to use the accounts for over-the-counter medicines.
*

High-income earners — families making more than $250,000 – would pay several thousand dollars more in Medicare payroll taxes starting in 2018. Their unearned income, now exempt from the payroll tax, would also be subject to a 3.8 percent levy.

Or you may be eligible to buy insurance through the exchanges

*

If your employer’s policy covers less than 60 percent of costs, or you are paying more than 9.5 percent of your income to get it, you can buy subsidized coverage on the exchanges.
*

If you receive subsidies and enroll in a health plan that covers abortion, you will have to pay a separate premium for that coverage. And states could prohibit abortion coverage by these plans.
*

You can get a voucher from your employer to buy insurance on the exchanges if your income is below $88,000 for a family of four, and your premiums cost between 8 and 9.8 percent of your income.



And for those who are crying BUT OMG I HAFF TO PAY PENALTY CUZ I DUN WANA PAY PRIVATE FEES!

"If you do not buy insurance" wrote:
If you do not buy insurance Top
Starting in 2014, most Americans will be required to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.

*

The penalty will be phased in, starting at $95 or 1 percent of income in 2014, whichever is higher, and rising to $695 or 2.5 percent of income in 2016. But families would not pay more than $2,085.
*

American Indians don’t have to buy insurance. Those with religious objections or a financial hardship can also avoid the requirement. And if you would pay more than 8 percent of your income for the cheapest available plan, you will not be penalized for failing to buy coverage.
*

Those who are exempt, or under 30, can buy a policy that only pays for catastrophic medical costs. It must allow for three primary care visits a year as well.

silverwasp wrote:
Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....

Yes.... Same parents


WarMachine wrote:
meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
Muffalopadus
#5 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 10:30:57 AM
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:sigh: We'll see. Personally, if we had just abolished the whole 'state line insurance' thinger, we'd have some progress. At this point though, it just seems like a mess of legislation with the title of "Health Care Reform Bill". Therefore, Demo's vote for it or you're a bad democrat, and republicans vote against or you're a bad republican. =___=
If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan
My Backpack
Gunslinger
#6 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:50:09 AM
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can somebody splain the stuff holyjaw posted D:
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#7 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 2:10:32 PM
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I don't know what all is in the bill as passed, from what I've read a lot of decent stuff got put in and some of the craptastic stuff got pulled. It's still the worst health care reform money can buy.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Giller [GwDR]
#8 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:01:04 PM
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Gunslinger wrote:
can somebody splain the stuff holyjaw posted D:


You can keep your current plan — or — you can buy coverage through new state-run insurance marketplaces, called “exchanges,” starting in 2014.

If you keep your current plan

*

Within six months, the plans will have to stop some practices, like setting lifetime limits on coverage and canceling policy holders who get sick. They will also have to allow children to stay on their parents’ policies through age 26 and cover children with pre-existing conditions, but can still deny adults with medical problems until 2014. - Pretty much self explanitory i think here.
*

Insurers will have to pay a 40 percent excise tax on high-value group plans – those in which premiums for families are $27,500 or more, for instance – starting in 2014. Experts say the tax will likely be passed on to employees through higher premiums or lower benefits and wages. - So called "cadillac plans" for rich people or companys that provide them to employees that the cover everything under the sun, have astronomic benefit dollars available to the insured. They will be taxed much like a luxury good is taxed to help support the costs of all the subsidized insured that will be pulled in. Its just taxing the rich.
*

Starting in 2013, flexible spending accounts, which allow users to escape taxes on many medical expenses now, will be limited. There will be a $2,500 maximum on accounts that typically carry $4,000 or $5,000 limits now, and you will no longer be able to use the accounts for over-the-counter medicines. - Flex spending accounts are usually provided by employeers. They let you put aside money from each paycheck into an account that is tax free, but can only be used for medical expenses (insurance deductibles, over the counter medicines, doctors visits, surgeries, eye glasses, etc.). Only stipulation is that there are restrictions on what you can purchase with it and you have to use it before the end of the year or it is taken by the government. My company has a 5k limit, which will be reduced to 2500 and sucks. Flex spending accounts are an awesome financial tool because you could even use it kinda like a interest free loan on medical spending. Ex. I declare i want 1000 of my income put into flex for 2011 ($19 bucks a week outta paycheck), now lets say i get hurt 2 weeks into Jan 2011 and have 1000 buck in med bills. I can file for flex and get the 1000 check even though I have only contributed 38 bucks for the year. Sign up for this if your company provides it. This bill is obviously changing the max amount, but also you wont be able to buy OTC medicines anymore, which is a negative because what people did in the past is if the end of the year was coming and they had money left in the flex account...instead of letting Uncle sam take the flex money...they would just go out to walgreens and buy bandaids, tylenol, contact solution, laxatives, whatever and use up all the money ....you wont be able to do that anymore.*

High-income earners — families making more than $250,000 – would pay several thousand dollars more in Medicare payroll taxes starting in 2018. Their unearned income, now exempt from the payroll tax, would also be subject to a 3.8 percent levy. - Hign income families medicare tax rates will go up. Additionally, any income from Interest or dividends (money they get from stocks or bonds they might own) will be taxed now.
Or you may be eligible to buy insurance through the exchanges

*

If your employer’s policy covers less than 60 percent of costs, or you are paying more than 9.5 percent of your income to get it, you can buy subsidized coverage on the exchanges.
- Self explanitory
*

If you receive subsidies and enroll in a health plan that covers abortion, you will have to pay a separate premium for that coverage. And states could prohibit abortion coverage by these plans. - You have to pay more if you enroll in this new mandatory health cover and want abortions covered. Although you would think that anyone who needs welfare healthcare, probably also needs the abortion coverage stock...imean we are trying to keep those ppl from knocking eachother up and making more welfare babies, right? Crazy. Unless you are in a state that prohibits abortion..then you dont get a choice.*

You can get a voucher from your employer to buy insurance on the exchanges if your income is below $88,000 for a family of four, and your premiums cost between 8 and 9.8 percent of your income. - You get a voucher to buy on the exchange if your family income is below 88000, and the company insurance plan sucks so bad that you are having to pay 8-9.8 of your income just to cover your share of the insurance cost. Example: you make 50k and your spouse doesnt work. Your company offers an insurance plan, but it is going to cost you $4900 a year outta your paychecks to get it. Then you can make the decision to buy from the new national insurance exchange, where you might get a better deal. If you choose to not buy any insurance you will be penalized..

Quote:

"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
Gunslinger
#9 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:38:21 PM
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Thanks gil
In an hour of Darkness a blind man is the best guide. In an age of Insanity look to the madman to lead the way.

Darkillumina
#10 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:45:32 PM
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I'm glad Tommy Douglas took care of this in Canada 50 years ago. The American system seems so ridiculously convoluted at this point with the # of competing interests.
I'm the leetest one here

endyss
#11 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:13:35 PM
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Gunslinger wrote:
can somebody splain the stuff holyjaw posted D:


  1. Government regulation imbalances the cost structure of the health insurance industry, effectively making insurance companies quasi-privately run entities controlled by the government. The government now says who must buy insurance, what it must cover, and how much they can be charged for it.

  2. Insurance companies are forced to raise rates in order to stay in business. The health insurance reform will curtail their ability to do so with impunity, but they'll still be able to raise rates on anyone with incomes above a politically acceptable level.

  3. In the face of rising rates at private health insurers and the collapse of others, the government declares this "free market healthcare" debacle a failure, the only reasonable option to permit the continued flow of healthcare being an officially-run, taxpayer-subsidized option, the "single payer" solution.


Sorry if that's not the detailed breakdown of "what this new law means," since as Dick indicated, few if anyone knows the full scope of what it will do. The only thing it will do for certain is tell evil insurance companies they can't do some things and they must do others. Those things will mean higher operating costs ultimately passed on to the customers (since, if they didn't raise costs but in fact lowered them, the insurance companies would already be doing them). The only carrot I've heard cited as a way that will help offset these costs is the "individual mandate" that will require everyone to buy health insurance whether they want it or not. That will theoretically give the insurance companies more income than they otherwise would have gotten, but it's also assuming that a) everyone DOES buy health insurance like good little proles, and b) it is not declared unconstitutional in one of the several lawsuits being brought by different states to challenge it. If either of those fails... well, see #3 above.

Think of Giller's as explaining the micro, mine explaining the macro.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#12 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:49:14 PM
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endyss wrote:

  1. Government regulation imbalances the cost structure of the health insurance industry, effectively making insurance companies quasi-privately run entities controlled by the government. The government now says who must buy insurance, what it must cover, and how much they can be charged for it.

  2. Insurance companies are forced to raise rates in order to stay in business. The health insurance reform will curtail their ability to do so with impunity, but they'll still be able to raise rates on anyone with incomes above a politically acceptable level.

  3. In the face of rising rates at private health insurers and the collapse of others, the government declares this "free market healthcare" debacle a failure, the only reasonable option to permit the continued flow of healthcare being an officially-run, taxpayer-subsidized option, the "single payer" solution.




You know the only one I don't really agree here is #2, mostly because their profits are higher than they've ever been. They don't raise rates to stay in business, they raise rates to make more money. Anyways, we're all doomed so who cares?
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


HolyJaw
#13 Posted: : Tuesday, March 23, 2010 11:20:49 PM
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Yeah Endyss I'm gonna have to agree with you. Your assumptions assume that the insurance companies are operating in some sort of competitive market where fair-market values determine pricing structures, when this is clearly not the case.

Also, I vote "yes" for HCR simply for the fact that as a future entrepreneur, since, you know, we create almost 99% of all new jobs, it's gonna be kind of necessary for me to have health care in the future without being beholden to a secondary employer for health care benefits, or for my new employees to pay exorbitant costs for me to get some cheapo shitty plan for them.
silverwasp wrote:
Be careful what you wish for... I have 10 younger siblings and I am only 20....

Yes.... Same parents


WarMachine wrote:
meh...maybe if he hadn't been handed a burning house he could have done great things, but right now he has won the Prize for what? Damage Control?
TripleBam
#14 Posted: : Wednesday, March 24, 2010 12:34:31 AM
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Oh my god. Grey Wolf. I'm glad your back. For god's sake, change your avatar's size. it's bruising the forum.
Safety + Peace
endyss
#15 Posted: : Wednesday, March 24, 2010 5:56:12 AM
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HolyJaw wrote:
Yeah Endyss I'm gonna have to agree with you. Your assumptions assume that the insurance companies are operating in some sort of competitive market where fair-market values determine pricing structures, when this is clearly not the case.

Also, I vote "yes" for HCR simply for the fact that as a future entrepreneur, since, you know, we create almost 99% of all new jobs, it's gonna be kind of necessary for me to have health care in the future without being beholden to a secondary employer for health care benefits, or for my new employees to pay exorbitant costs for me to get some cheapo shitty plan for them.

If I sounded like I was saying the current market was all rainbows and free market sunshine, then I should correct. It is LESS government distorted than it will be under Obamacare, but it is still horribly messed up by decades of well-meaning government bureaucracy. Everything from the majority of people getting health insurance through their employer to being unable to buy health insurance from providers in other states is due to government's say-so.

Am I some shill for the insurance companies, who naively believes they have your aches and pains truly at the top of their lists? Hell no, but they want to stay in business, and in a free market that means controlling costs and retaining some level of customer base. Now I ask you, are government's incentives any better than that? Are your aches and pains truly higher on their list of priorities than, say, getting re-elected, or pursuing a political ideology? If you think so, maybe I'm not the one who's naive.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


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