This really just sounds like hardcore server vs. noob friendly/creative server.

If we end up getting a lot of people who want both, I think it would make sense for us to have two servers. One with vanilla, hardcore minecraft and one for people who want to putz around with building things without getting griefed too badly. It sounds like Rik is doing the right thing at the moment. Honestly, I love/hate creeper damage. As Porgon pointed out, it makes it so that you have to maintain your property, which is kind of nice.

However, in the infantile stages of this minecraft thing, I don't see too much of a problem with it being off right now.

Ultimately, Rik has THE POWAAAAH! Since its his server and everything, but yeah.

This is kind of where you lose your credibility, bud.
The only point of actual contention is the Creeper damage, which honestly I think is pretty silly.

Everything else is open to change. PvP has already been re-enabled. As I said and you seemingly ignored, the only reason I disabled it was because open PvP is against the rules and consensual PvP was never mentioned as something wanted.



It's not overreaction. I don't want to build things knowing others' could indirectly cause their destruction, nor do I want to be responsible for a server that, over time, looks worse and worse due to the accumulative damage caused by Creepers. Prior to finding the WorldGuard plugin I wouldn't have cared, but now I know Creeper terrain damage can be disabled.

Claiming I'm overreacting about this is like claiming I'm overreacting by leaving a TF2 server for one that's 24/7, instant-spawn 2Fort. That's the environment I enjoy playing in, so that the environment I'll seek out. Yes, that subsequently means leaving the clan Minecraft server.

"Overreacting" would be me shutting the server down altogether for not getting things my way, which has never been on the table. In fact I'm for *more* servers so everyone can get what they want.



While I do think it's a bit preposterous to have your architectural designs dictated by one damage type of one monster, you'll find I have defenses around almost all of my structures. In fact I've used water holes and flowing water to trap or move away monsters, lava moats to kill monsters, and cacti/water to kill monsters and retrieve their drops. In most cases I've build them into my architecture in a pleasant way.



I'm quite aware of creeper damage. It's one power lower than TNT.

For a pure Survival server, sure. In a pure Survival environment your primary purpose is to survive and secondary purpose is to build to augment your survivability. Naturally a monster that destroys buildings works there because destroying your buildings means hurting your survivability.

But this isn't a pure Survival server. It's primary purpose is to give us a place to create an environment of our own with the Survival mechanics present to add challenge to material acquisition and make creation more rewarding.

Here we're not building for survival, we're building to build. It's no longer a matter of a monster destroying buildings to damage our survivability; them destroying our buildings usually just means they're destroying our buildings. This makes their terrain/structure destruction contrary to the primary purpose of the server.

That's why I'm for a second, pure Survival server. Where survival is the primary focus, Creeper terrain destruction makes more sense. Construction is for survivability, which doesn't require things to look nice--just functional. Less elaborate architecture is also more expendable, allowing for periodic resets where a Creation server doesn't.

Your arguments make sense, but only in terms of a Survival server. Right now we have a hybrid. Hybrids mean compromises for the desired effect, and Creeper terrain damage is simply contrary to the Creation focus the server currently has.

And you seem to think servers can only function as designed by the creators. You know what's also part of Minecraft's design? The capacity to mod it.



See... the fact you even ask this question strikes me as ridiculous. The only thing in contention is that Creepers don't destroy terrain. That is one small mechanic among many, yet you seem to to use it as the pivot point between "Being Survival" and "Not being Survival at All".

But I'll humor you by itemizing some of the things that make it Survival:
- You gather resources to build
- You craft tools to gather resources
- You craft armor and weapons for defense and to help explore/gather resources
- You have health and can die
- There are monsters that attack, damage, and can kill you
- The environment can kill you through burning, drowning, suffocating, falling.

All of those things exist only in the Survival form of the game. And you make the claim that there's nothing about the server qualifying it as survival?

Yeah....

Go play Creative/Classic for a while and maybe you'll understand what Survival is. If all the server was was Creative then none of us would have even needed to buy the game. That version is free.



Which can't work at this time since my server can't handle another instance. Unless someone else has a server available to host it. Then it makes sense to start the topic now.

Aaaannnnyyyways.

There's little point in continuing this any longer. If either of us hoped to solicit support for our side, I don't think anyone finds it so important as to take a firm stance for or against it. And going in circles for pages on end won't change that; nobody new will want to read it.

Muff's right in that this comes down to hardcore vs. noob friendly. If everyone were pro like you, it'd be safe to assume everyone knows how to avoid Creeper explosions and the damage to terrain and others' structures will be minimal. But the safer assumption is that not everyone will be pro, explosions will happen, the terrain will be damaged, and accidental damage will be caused to others' creations.

The game isn't even out of beta yet, and a lot of people here are picking it up for the first time. The road ahead is full of a lot more newcomers than it is pros. Most people will learn by playing. There will be Creeper explosions. There will be accidental forest fires. Shit happens. One persons' learning experience shouldn't negatively impact other players. In a primarily cooperative, creative environment, I'd think that'd be a given.

Eh, that would have its downsides, too.
Those who are comfortable with the balance as it is now would be more inclined to stay near spawn. As it is we want to encourage people to get a bit of distance.

Personally I'm for increasing to-player danger some more. I actually looked for a plugin that would make Creepers explode into lava or something. =P

Yeah, I don't know, you both make very valid points and you're starting to turn Minecraft into something political...two similar yet very different views on how to do things...