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Brosnan
#31 Posted: : Wednesday, July 30, 2008 7:54:29 PM
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endyss wrote:
Brosnan wrote:
too long; didn't read.

Obviously.  Btw, am I supposed to see that as some kind of negative that you don't have the attention span to read five paragraphs, as though refusing to ingest more than one mouthful of information at a time is a virtue?


ya
Lead Salad
#32 Posted: : Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:53:58 PM
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endyss wrote:
Super Penguin wrote:
Sorry, off-topic, but I just wanted to finish off my rant. I bet somebody figures out how to keep humans alive forever in the next 1000 years. Don't hold me to it though, cuz i won't be around to collect my winnings.

Next thousand years??  I'm banking on it in my lifetime!

To be more serious, I highly doubt it'll take 1000 years for humans to achieve "immortality."  We're already working on technology about regrowing organs, repairing degenerative damage to the brain, and other life prolonging techniques.  The entire purpose of the medical industry is the preservation and extension of life.  Combine that with efforts being made to simulate the actual neurons of the brain (see Lab comes one step closer to building artificial human brain for a recent overview on the subject), and it's only a matter of time before an individual can be seen to never "die."  Once an entire brain can be simulated, the next step becomes simulating a person's ACTUAL neurons.  That simulation can either be run from within a machine (see Ghost In The Shell) or merely stored there and exported back out into biological neurons in a host body. Obviously we're nowhere near that kind of thing, but the fact that we can even conceptualize the direction of it means it won't take another millennium.

Taking the discussion to a deeper level, the prospect raises a host of spiritual questions as well, the nature and uncertain "portability" of the human soul among others.  If a human mind could be completely simulated and then transferred to a host body or run from within the machine and still be indistinguishable from the original mind, couldn't it be conceivably done multiple times?  And what does it say about what it means to be an "individual" if the same individual's mind/soul can be flawlessly replicated?

I'll conclude my commentary with another extension of the concept... If a human mind could be perfectly stored or simulated within a computer, would that simulated mind have the same rights as its biological version?  It would be a boon for the field of psychological research to be able to ethically simulated the reactions of an actual human mind.  At some point, wouldn't we want to hook up multiple computers and simulate multiple people?  At some point, wouldn't we be able to simulate a virtual version of an entire world, populated with completely flawlessly replicated human minds?

Where I'm going with this is something called the Simulation Argument.  In a nutshell, it considers this progression of technology to be inevitable (assuming we as a species survive that long) and concludes based on sound statistical theory that either societies at that level make the conscious choice not to simulate virtual worlds or WE are almost certainly living in a computer simulation.  The notion smacks a little sci-fi and a lot Matrix, but check out the site for a more persuasive argument that I think makes a lot of sense.


Helios has spoken.
Giller [GwDR]
#33 Posted: : Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:58:15 PM
Rank: Fecal Impaction For the Win!



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Lead Salad wrote:
endyss wrote:
Super Penguin wrote:
Sorry, off-topic, but I just wanted to finish off my rant. I bet somebody figures out how to keep humans alive forever in the next 1000 years. Don't hold me to it though, cuz i won't be around to collect my winnings.

Next thousand years??  I'm banking on it in my lifetime!

To be more serious, I highly doubt it'll take 1000 years for humans to achieve "immortality."  We're already working on technology about regrowing organs, repairing degenerative damage to the brain, and other life prolonging techniques.  The entire purpose of the medical industry is the preservation and extension of life.  Combine that with efforts being made to simulate the actual neurons of the brain (see Lab comes one step closer to building artificial human brain for a recent overview on the subject), and it's only a matter of time before an individual can be seen to never "die."  Once an entire brain can be simulated, the next step becomes simulating a person's ACTUAL neurons.  That simulation can either be run from within a machine (see Ghost In The Shell) or merely stored there and exported back out into biological neurons in a host body. Obviously we're nowhere near that kind of thing, but the fact that we can even conceptualize the direction of it means it won't take another millennium.

Taking the discussion to a deeper level, the prospect raises a host of spiritual questions as well, the nature and uncertain "portability" of the human soul among others.  If a human mind could be completely simulated and then transferred to a host body or run from within the machine and still be indistinguishable from the original mind, couldn't it be conceivably done multiple times?  And what does it say about what it means to be an "individual" if the same individual's mind/soul can be flawlessly replicated?

I'll conclude my commentary with another extension of the concept... If a human mind could be perfectly stored or simulated within a computer, would that simulated mind have the same rights as its biological version?  It would be a boon for the field of psychological research to be able to ethically simulated the reactions of an actual human mind.  At some point, wouldn't we want to hook up multiple computers and simulate multiple people?  At some point, wouldn't we be able to simulate a virtual version of an entire world, populated with completely flawlessly replicated human minds?

Where I'm going with this is something called the Simulation Argument.  In a nutshell, it considers this progression of technology to be inevitable (assuming we as a species survive that long) and concludes based on sound statistical theory that either societies at that level make the conscious choice not to simulate virtual worlds or WE are almost certainly living in a computer simulation.  The notion smacks a little sci-fi and a lot Matrix, but check out the site for a more persuasive argument that I think makes a lot of sense.


Helios has spoken.


Yeah....um everybody go read Altered Carbon.  Thats how man creates Methuselah.

Quote:

"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
Lead Salad
#34 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 12:05:37 AM
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Hopefully that far in the future, all labour will be put on robots and all humans will truly be equal and evolve away from petty ideas like material wealth.
endyss
#35 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 3:09:56 AM
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Lead Salad wrote:
Hopefully that far in the future, all labour will be put on robots and all humans will truly be equal and evolve away from petty ideas like material wealth.

I suppose it'd be possible that all work somewhere in the future would be done by robots, and it's true that our society today could do a lot to raise the minimum standard of living in the world (I'm talking about Ethiopia and Somalia, not the "poor" in the U.S.), but as long as people have free will there will always be people who choose to go the extra mile and people who consciously choose to be lazy.  Just given the way our society rewards celebrity, talented or hardworking people will always end up receiving "more" than someone who does the opposite, and if we ever seriously get to a point where there is no reward for those things, we as a species will be closer to WALL-E-esque mediocrity than a fantasy Star Trek utopia.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


J-Town
#36 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 3:40:15 AM
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We will die off before any of that. Sooner or later someone is going to fuck shit up and get us all killed. While nobody wants to be "that guy", someone will be. Many many people will be probably. But we digress....

TripleBam wrote:
I was about to correct something but....no...it's all there.

Cantrip wrote:
Holy fuck. J-Town is a genius!


Brosnan wrote:
Whole lotta words that add up to "hey everyone I'm a giant faggot"

TripleBam wrote:
I just remember chewing it for 5 minutes before giving up. I tried to fit the whole slab into my mouth and some of it started sliding down to where I started to gag on it. I ended up pulling the whole 7" piece by the very tail end from my esophagus before stuffing it under my seat cushion.

Lead Salad
#37 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 7:39:14 PM
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endyss wrote:
Lead Salad wrote:
Hopefully that far in the future, all labour will be put on robots and all humans will truly be equal and evolve away from petty ideas like material wealth.

I suppose it'd be possible that all work somewhere in the future would be done by robots, and it's true that our society today could do a lot to raise the minimum standard of living in the world (I'm talking about Ethiopia and Somalia, not the "poor" in the U.S.), but as long as people have free will there will always be people who choose to go the extra mile and people who consciously choose to be lazy.  Just given the way our society rewards celebrity, talented or hardworking people will always end up receiving "more" than someone who does the opposite, and if we ever seriously get to a point where there is no reward for those things, we as a species will be closer to WALL-E-esque mediocrity than a fantasy Star Trek utopia.

You misinterpreted my vision of the future and furthermore stop comparing all future utopias to Star Trek, it's really ignorant.
endyss
#38 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:01:41 PM
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My apologies. Please edumacate me proper on the correct interpretation of your future utopia where material accumulation is no longer a concern.



HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Lead Salad
#39 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 8:43:11 PM
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If all work was put to robots and artificial intelligences, the only things left for humans to do would be art, and maybe scientific research (unless AI can do that better). Of course you may reward people with commodities, and of course, psychologically, we will always need some commodities, but what do those people use to buy those commodities? A robot doesn't need to be paid. Anything you want can be made for free. Furthermore, if all humans are made intellectually equal by nanotechnology or whatever method, nothing makes anyone more capable or worthy or being rewarded for doing something other than the fact that they can be assed to do it. If humans attain a higher state of intellect or conscience, won't they see the futility in most material wealth? I imagine many will disregard its value.
Oopsie
#40 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:02:49 PM
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Lead Salad wrote:
You misinterpreted my vision of the future and furthermore stop comparing all future utopias to Star Trek, it's really ignorant.


How you get people to continue to reply to you is beyond me.
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?



Lead Salad
#41 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:17:33 PM
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It's easy, they're not assholes or idiots like you.
Magic Anchovies
#42 Posted: : Thursday, July 31, 2008 9:43:10 PM
Rank: You're gonna stick that where?


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"If I got a Nickle Every Time I heard that, I'd be so rich, I Could Walk Up To Oprah and burn her Freedom Papers."
"Sex is like KFC. Once your done nibbling on the breast, you got a nice greasy box to stick your bone into"
Giller [GwDR]
#43 Posted: : Friday, August 01, 2008 1:16:22 AM
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Oopsie wrote:
Lead Salad wrote:
You misinterpreted my vision of the future and furthermore stop comparing all future utopias to Star Trek, it's really ignorant.


How you get people to continue to reply to you is beyond me.


Rofl.   Its the simple observations that are the most amusing. 

In all this back and for rhetoric, there is this one line of pure genius hidden between all the gilded bullshit Endyss vomits up...and the semi coherent ramplings of a madman named Leadsalad.

Oopsie, I tip my hat to you sir.

Quote:

"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
endyss
#44 Posted: : Friday, August 01, 2008 1:55:13 AM
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Giller [GwDR wrote:
]In all this back and for rhetoric, there is this one line of pure genius hidden between all the gilded bullshit Endyss vomits up...and the semi coherent ramplings of a madman named Leadsalad.

Hmph!  Since when is educated discussion "gilded bullshit"?  Because I write in complete sentences and insist on expressing my points soundly before I post?


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Giller [GwDR]
#45 Posted: : Friday, August 01, 2008 2:13:35 AM
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I apologiZe. I was over reacting. I was gonna edit it but took a showerfirst and you were too fast on the forum reading. it's just that fragglerock avatar, for some reason, makes something sinister and dark well up In me when I see it. Red washes over me and I black out. When I wake up, I have either left anupsetting post, or have punched a baby. Which do you prefer ???

Quote:

"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
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