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Hate to be a downer but... Options
Business
#16 Posted: : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:08:36 PM
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CNBC says its a "done deal". If I understand it the Fed takes 80% ownership?

This sounds bad. Are  they becoming a private equity fund?  -__-

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/business/17insure.html?ref=business
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BadHorsie
#17 Posted: : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 8:22:08 PM
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The Bush assminitstration is against socialized government-owned healthcare, but they just bought an insurance company. Irony!

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“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.” - Ben Bernanke
Business
#18 Posted: : Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:22:58 PM
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Careful now, I don't think that the Treasury Department is involved here.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
BadHorsie
#19 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:10:35 AM
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McCheese wrote:

Welcome to Thunderdome!

 

...Bitch...

McCheese before Thunderdome ....              and then McCheese after Thunderdome!

 

 

 

If you support John McCain and/or George W. Bush, please click here.

“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.” - Ben Bernanke
WDF?
#20 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 3:07:39 AM
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And AIG goes down. This is getting incredible.

Business
#21 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 5:32:46 AM
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WDF? wrote:
And AIG goes down. This is getting incredible.


It's pretty worrying.

This is basically a controlled demolition. As far as I can tell the $85 Billion will come from the Fed directly (the Treasury isn't involved) meaning they will just "lend" the $85 billion tomorrow and take 79.9% control of the company. The loan will have to be paid back over two years @ 8.5 points over the 3 month LIBOR (meaning this is an adjustable rate loan /irony) according to Bloomberg. It also sounds like they will not be required to sell assets to pay for this loan, but I can't see any other way that AIG can pay this off.

Now this is where it starts to worry me -- with a controlling stake in the company, they can pretty much decide where and to who the assets are sold off. Then you have to consider that most of the liquidity raised from the sale of assets will go to feeding the interest and repayment on this loan. This is where you cross into a gray-area. The Federal Reserve of course is a corporation, with shareholders. The shareholders of course, are not disclosed (minus the US Gov't) but it is probably reasonable to assume that they have ties into other businesses if they are shareholders in our central bank.

This is where I see a possible confilict of Interest. Where does the interest on $85 billion go once it is paid? I imagine some portion of the profit gets paid out to the shareholders, and this presents a scarry opportunity. That being to dismantle and sell off AIG to a company you control as a central bank shareholder and then pocket the money through interest on the loan while keeping the asset. I dunno but the conditions seem right.

And then when you think about how banks gave people loans even though they couldn't afford them...is this loan to AIG so different? I think this needs a serious overview. All of this stuff is done with no oversight at all. I mean we are reading about secret meetings between the bankers and the Feds, negotiations done after hours...does anybody really understand what we are doing here?

Give me your thoughts.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
BadHorsie
#22 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 6:14:29 AM
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I think I'm afraid of my government.

 

If you support John McCain and/or George W. Bush, please click here.

“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.” - Ben Bernanke
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#23 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:59:00 AM
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Business wrote:


And then when you think about how banks gave people loans even though they couldn't afford them...is this loan to AIG so different? I think this needs a serious overview. All of this stuff is done with no oversight at all. I mean we are reading about secret meetings between the bankers and the Feds, negotiations done after hours...does anybody really understand what we are doing here?

Give me your thoughts.


This is all backroom deals between aristocrats. No one understands what exactly they are doing besides what the PR flacks spin. I doubt they even really know fully what they are doing.

Re: AIG, my understanding is that most of the company is extremely profitable so you may very well be right about the Fed's backers wanting to chop it up and eat it. It's a fucking insurance company, not a bank - so wtf is the Fed even involved for?

It's funny how all these fuckers suddenly become a bunch of socialist pinkos as soon as the shit hits the fan.
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#24 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 12:56:18 PM
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And now the stock market is in a downward spiral, the FDIC reserve has dropped below mandated limits, and Washington Mutual is on the verge of becoming the largest bank in history to collapse. Exciting times we live in. 
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


endyss
#25 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 1:59:56 PM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
And now the stock market is in a downward spiral, the FDIC reserve has dropped below mandated limits, and Washington Mutual is on the verge of becoming the largest bank in history to collapse. Exciting times we live in. 

Exciting indeed.  Looks like the greed of the super rich corporate bastards could destroy their undeserved wealth far faster than income redistribution fiscal policies ever could!

I mean, it'd have been so much nicer if the government could have just TAKEN all that money and given it to the less fortunate (we have the right to, right?), but lessening the fat cats' wealth is still lessening it.  Good times, good times, we're all on a little more level playing field today, and one step closer to true equality!


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


WDF?
#26 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:09:11 PM
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Wamu collapsing is sad for me, as I work on their commercials and they pay well :(

{pDs}BelligerentPimp
#27 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:09:17 PM
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Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
AIG is supposedly going down soon too and they're the largest insurers and one of the biggest companies in the world. Major meltdown.

 

From what I understand, AIG insures the loans when banks loan to each other. Kind of an FDIC for banks.

Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart
#28 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:34:25 PM
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endyss wrote:
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
And now the stock market is in a downward spiral, the FDIC reserve has dropped below mandated limits, and Washington Mutual is on the verge of becoming the largest bank in history to collapse. Exciting times we live in. 

Exciting indeed.  Looks like the greed of the super rich corporate bastards could destroy their undeserved wealth far faster than income redistribution fiscal policies ever could!

I mean, it'd have been so much nicer if the government could have just TAKEN all that money and given it to the less fortunate (we have the right to, right?), but lessening the fat cats' wealth is still lessening it.  Good times, good times, we're all on a little more level playing field today, and one step closer to true equality!


Or alternately: With some reasonable regulation and oversight the super rich could of avoided this crisis and could in fact still be raking it in. Remember our conversation about air safety? This is in effect the same thing. The safety regulations were removed, greed lead to shitty risk assessment, shitty risk assessment lead to increasingly unsafe conditions, unsafe conditions lead to disaster. Now the economy is fucked. The whole thing could of been avoided.

I think you are being sarcastic, but just in case: I don't care about lessening fat cats wealth, my idea of equality is that when an economy grows the benefit doesn't accrue solely to the already rich. That whole "rising tide lifts all boats" thing, except that it doesn't and it hasn't for decades. Now the rest of us are stuck bailing out the super rich as always. American capitalism is a sick joke.
Razor wrote:
Killing people is good therapy.


Business
#29 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:53:12 PM
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endyss wrote:
Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:
And now the stock market is in a downward spiral, the FDIC reserve has dropped below mandated limits, and Washington Mutual is on the verge of becoming the largest bank in history to collapse. Exciting times we live in. 

Exciting indeed.  Looks like the greed of the super rich corporate bastards could destroy their undeserved wealth far faster than income redistribution fiscal policies ever could!

I mean, it'd have been so much nicer if the government could have just TAKEN all that money and given it to the less fortunate (we have the right to, right?), but lessening the fat cats' wealth is still lessening it.  Good times, good times, we're all on a little more level playing field today, and one step closer to true equality!


I'm not as convinced that the rich are getting pummeled.

Just keep submitting news stories, we can create a map of whats happening.

Dick Cheney's Mechanical Heart wrote:

Re: AIG, my understanding is that most of the company is extremely profitable...


Many of these companies still own profitable assets. Look at the Barclay's story in the first post. They are looking to take performing assets and leave the junk mortgage securities.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
endyss
#30 Posted: : Wednesday, September 17, 2008 2:55:01 PM
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In all seriousness, I believe government handouts in ALL forms violate our rights and constitutional principles.

We can't afford it, and the evidence of its wrongheadedness is blindingly obvious with these bailouts of huge companies deemed "too big to fail."  To me, it's as much a wrong to say "you're too rich, he's too poor, so here we're going to give him some of your money" as it is to say "That company, you know, the one paying its CEO millions and playing dangerous games with its mortgage loans, deserves some of your money too because, you know, we just can't let it go under!"

All of these bailouts and entitlements are one place I really wish our Supreme Court would step in and illuminate the other branches of our government on exactly what the Constitution means by "No person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


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