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Anyone who idled for those sexy sexy hats... Options
Saber (Wu)
#46 Posted: : Friday, September 04, 2009 3:59:14 PM
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Giller [GwDR wrote:
]If that was entirely true they wouldnt allow programs like sourcemod and the like.

You are right...its not a morality issue. Its an property life cycle issue. They are designing these things and designing in some level of rarity, as a means to extend the life of the game in interest in playing. If people are allowed to design and use programs that circumvent that goal...then they (valve) are not getting the same bang for thier buck in longevity and interest in their product. In any event, it still Cheating the system they have in place.


Idling still exists, Why did people use a 3rd party program to idle in a server when they could just leave the computer on all day on an "achievement_idle" server? Why even bother using the program? The program didn't give out hats to everyone like crazy. It didn't increase the # of dice rolls for each day.

Had the idlers PLAYED for real instead of sitting in spec like you did in the program, you would be increasing the number a rolls steam does to you because your gainning play time hour. Hell sitting as a class in achievement_idle is worst than the program cause it gives you both.
Bike
#47 Posted: : Friday, September 04, 2009 4:30:55 PM
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Saber (Wu) wrote:
Idling still exists, Why did people use a 3rd party program to idle in a server when they could just leave the computer on all day on an "achievement_idle" server? Why even bother using the program? The program didn't give out hats to everyone like crazy. It didn't increase the # of dice rolls for each day.

Had the idlers PLAYED for real instead of sitting in spec like you did in the program, you would be increasing the number a rolls steam does to you because your gainning play time hour. Hell sitting as a class in achievement_idle is worst than the program cause it gives you both.


You're right. There really is no fundamental difference between idling in a server and using the program. That whole aspect about Valve's decision is technically not very relevant though. However, there are benefits you get from using the program that are not available to anyone who gets items in a legit fashion which deem it illegal (which surely plays a part in Valve's decision):

-You can run it in the background and not have it hog resources unlike idling using the real game.
-You don't face the risk of getting booted from an admin or hit an AFK timer.
-You can customize how you want the program to manage your backpack. You can set it to delete duplicates or things with a lower level - or anything but hats. This is not a regular game feature at all.

These are things that give anyone that uses the program benefits over people that use the regular game. Regardless of the features (or what some would argue the "lack" of features), it is a program and crosses the distinguishing mark Valve made. The thing most people who got their stuff taken away don't realize is that although people could still idle with the game, it is irrelevant in explaining the justification of banning people who used an application that really doesn't do much more than reguarly idling. Valve's point was that any third-party application used to modify the game breaks the terms of service and they will punish for it. People seem to think Valve owes them an apology because people idle in the regular game and didn't get punished and they did. Well, the line Valve drew was on using programs, not on the definition of idling. It's not a democracy.

Perhaps the reason I am getting at is that this issue is solved with a much more fundamental reasoning than what people would like to hear. That reasoning is that Valve can do what it wants because they make the game and it isn't a democracy.
{pDs} Lead Salad: bike why did you change your name
Jessica343: so I can get heals
{pDs} Lead Salad: oh damn good idea
{pDs} Lead Salad has changed their name to {pDs} Lead Salad (is a girl)
Jessica343: hahah
Saber (Wu)
#48 Posted: : Friday, September 04, 2009 6:07:52 PM
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Bike wrote:
You're right. There really is no fundamental difference between idling in a server and using the program. That whole aspect about Valve's decision is technically not very relevant though. However, there are benefits you get from using the program that are not available to anyone who gets items in a legit fashion which deem it illegal (which surely plays a part in Valve's decision):

-You can run it in the background and not have it hog resources unlike idling using the real game.
-You don't face the risk of getting booted from an admin or hit an AFK timer.
-You can customize how you want the program to manage your backpack. You can set it to delete duplicates or things with a lower level - or anything but hats. This is not a regular game feature at all.

These are things that give anyone that uses the program benefits over people that use the regular game. Regardless of the features (or what some would argue the "lack" of features), it is a program and crosses the distinguishing mark Valve made. The thing most people who got their stuff taken away don't realize is that although people could still idle with the game, it is irrelevant in explaining the justification of banning people who used an application that really doesn't do much more than reguarly idling. Valve's point was that any third-party application used to modify the game breaks the terms of service and they will punish for it. People seem to think Valve owes them an apology because people idle in the regular game and didn't get punished and they did. Well, the line Valve drew was on using programs, not on the definition of idling. It's not a democracy.

Perhaps the reason I am getting at is that this issue is solved with a much more fundamental reasoning than what people would like to hear. That reasoning is that Valve can do what it wants because they make the game and it isn't a democracy.


Which leads to the second point. Valve even said they didn't have a policy in place before. They just had that policy against 3rd party program 2 days ago. The policy went into effect and everyone didn't get a second chance to stop idling. "No cheating/exploiting" policy? How was it cheating in the first place when valve isn't going to stop idling from "achievement_idle". They "considered" it cheating? I'm considering you're all gay but that isn't true and you don't know if I changed my mind on you guys/girls. After the "considering" there really wasn't much of a warning to tell us to stop. Besides the achievement unlocker 3 months BEFORE the idler program was created.
Bike
#49 Posted: : Friday, September 04, 2009 7:55:57 PM
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Saber (Wu) wrote:
Which leads to the second point. Valve even said they didn't have a policy in place before. They just had that policy against 3rd party program 2 days ago. The policy went into effect and everyone didn't get a second chance to stop idling. "No cheating/exploiting" policy? How was it cheating in the first place when valve isn't going to stop idling from "achievement_idle". They "considered" it cheating? I'm considering you're all gay but that isn't true and you don't know if I changed my mind on you guys/girls. After the "considering" there really wasn't much of a warning to tell us to stop. Besides the achievement unlocker 3 months BEFORE the idler program was created.


What? The point Valve was making was that there is a restriction against using third-party programs, not idling. You know, just like that official interview in which Robin Walker stated that people farming achievements is fine, but using unlockers isn't? Just like that blog post they made referring to banning unlocks for using third-party software to aid in getting the weapons? That was back in February, by the way.

As per their Steam Subscriber's Agreement:

Steam Subscriber's Agreement wrote:
Steam and the Steam Software may include functionality designed to identify software or hardware processes or functionality that may give a player an unfair competitive advantage when playing multiplayer versions of any Steam Software, other Valve products, or modifications thereof ("Cheats"). You agree that you will not create or assist third parties in any way to create Cheats. You agree that you will not directly or indirectly disable, circumvent, or otherwise interfere with the operation of software designed to prevent or report the use of Cheats. You acknowledge and agree that either Valve or any online multiplayer host may refuse to allow you to participate in certain online multiplayer games if you use Cheats in connection with Steam or the Steam Software. Further, you acknowledge and agree that an online multiplayer host may report your use of Cheats to Valve, and Valve may communicate your history of use of Cheats to other online multiplayer hosts for Valve products. Valve may terminate your Account or a particular Subscription for any conduct or activity that Valve believes is illegal, constitutes a Cheat, or which otherwise negatively affects the enjoyment of Steam by other Subscribers. You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so.


That doesn't seem like it was two days ago. I just don't understand it. How can people not understand after having their weapons taken away back in February from using external software to gain them is any different than using external software to gain them now?

Considering th0ey said back in February, "This time it seems a number of you used an external application to unlock all of your achievements in order to get items unfairly", I'd say that them stating in the latest post, "However, we need to draw the line at running external applications" is not a coincidence. In combination of the blog from months ago, the terms of service, and the obvious repeat of the same thing they said before, I don't know understand why people are protesting. You're right, it was three months before the idle program was made. Don't you think that's enough time to take in their attitude towards programs from before? They can't tell who has and hasn't done both the unlocker and the idle, or just one or the other. They shouldn't have to try either.
{pDs} Lead Salad: bike why did you change your name
Jessica343: so I can get heals
{pDs} Lead Salad: oh damn good idea
{pDs} Lead Salad has changed their name to {pDs} Lead Salad (is a girl)
Jessica343: hahah
Docta BBQ
#50 Posted: : Monday, September 07, 2009 8:38:13 AM
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wow, this is over hats that you wear in an internet game? i love this forum, lol
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