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Giller [GwDR wrote:]
TerribleNate wrote:Pfft you really going to say that the old needle gun is better in some instances? Or the old bone saw? They are flat out upgrades and I have never gone back to the other shitty weapons.
Ubersaw is an straight upgrade i think, but that is not true of the guns. The old needlegun is much more offensive than the bluntslauger......the criticals make all the difference man.
No way. Go up against a pyro with the Needle gun... *if* you crit, you are still going to die from the flames. Back pedaling with the Blaughtsauger (sp?) is pretty much anti Pyro. They hardly ever kill me if I have the littlest room to back up in. Staying a live longer always beats crits imo. Same against other classes also, the crits dont do hardly enough damage to come close to going up against a heavy. Here with the health regen you can stay alive long enough to not need to rely on crits. Not The Face wrote:nate burn in hell asswipe Lead Salad wrote:And he promises to beat up any suspicious negroes and their children as well. Sirus touched me in my private message.
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TerribleNate wrote:Giller [GwDR wrote:]
TerribleNate wrote:Pfft you really going to say that the old needle gun is better in some instances? Or the old bone saw? They are flat out upgrades and I have never gone back to the other shitty weapons.
Ubersaw is an straight upgrade i think, but that is not true of the guns. The old needlegun is much more offensive than the bluntslauger......the criticals make all the difference man.
No way. Go up against a pyro with the Needle gun... *if* you crit, you are still going to die from the flames. Back pedaling with the Blaughtsauger (sp?) is pretty much anti Pyro. They hardly ever kill me if I have the littlest room to back up in. Staying a live longer always beats crits imo. Same against other classes also, the crits dont do hardly enough damage to come close to going up against a heavy. Here with the health regen you can stay alive long enough to not need to rely on crits. With crits you can hit with about 6 needles and kill someone. It does make a big difference, maybe not in your situation of being able to hit with every needle then obviously the new one is better. The ubersaw was a strong upgrade, a little atkspeed was nothing but ok Melee may not be as big as a deal as say.. your primary weapon??
With the old needlegun ive been able to kill straight up 300 health heavies before they can rev their gun with crits. Can you honestly say that with the new needlegun you can do that without crits? The 3 health take is going to outlast? Nope. It's all situational.
Giller, thanks for catchin my point. You can't say the flaregun is a flat out upgrade right? Nope.
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daniel wrote:
You can't say the flaregun is a flat out upgrade right? Nope.
lol it's was a downgrade when the pyro update came out. I have agree with you guys, it's all based on situations.  Cantrip wrote:When I die, I want to be reincarnated as a woman's jogging bra.
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daniel wrote:TerribleNate wrote:Giller [GwDR wrote:]
TerribleNate wrote:Pfft you really going to say that the old needle gun is better in some instances? Or the old bone saw? They are flat out upgrades and I have never gone back to the other shitty weapons.
Ubersaw is an straight upgrade i think, but that is not true of the guns. The old needlegun is much more offensive than the bluntslauger......the criticals make all the difference man.
No way. Go up against a pyro with the Needle gun... *if* you crit, you are still going to die from the flames. Back pedaling with the Blaughtsauger (sp?) is pretty much anti Pyro. They hardly ever kill me if I have the littlest room to back up in. Staying a live longer always beats crits imo. Same against other classes also, the crits dont do hardly enough damage to come close to going up against a heavy. Here with the health regen you can stay alive long enough to not need to rely on crits. With crits you can hit with about 6 needles and kill someone. It does make a big difference, maybe not in your situation of being able to hit with every needle then obviously the new one is better. The ubersaw was a strong upgrade, a little atkspeed was nothing but ok Melee may not be as big as a deal as say.. your primary weapon??
With the old needlegun ive been able to kill straight up 300 health heavies before they can rev their gun with crits. Can you honestly say that with the new needlegun you can do that without crits? The 3 health take is going to outlast? Nope. It's all situational.
Giller, thanks for catchin my point. You can't say the flaregun is a flat out upgrade right? Nope. I play medic a lot. How often do you really get crit rounds on your needle gun? Can you do 300 damage to the heavy before he starts spinning if you dont have crit needles? I think not. Where the regen helps all the time. You are going to say that a weapon that only has a % chance of being decent over a gun that is effective all the time is the better or even situational? ooook. Not The Face wrote:nate burn in hell asswipe Lead Salad wrote:And he promises to beat up any suspicious negroes and their children as well. Sirus touched me in my private message.
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I dont know why everyone is complaining about the pyro upgrades. A pyro is a pyro and still sucks. Daniel pretty much hit the nail on the head so I'll leave it at that.  I have no idea where you been but the more pyros you have, the better chances of you winning :/ I'm the leetest one here 
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TerribleNate wrote:Pfft you really going to say that the old needle gun is better in some instances? They need to bring back the needle gun push from the beta. Medics launching players was great. You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
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TerribleNate wrote:daniel wrote:TerribleNate wrote:Giller [GwDR wrote:]
TerribleNate wrote:Pfft you really going to say that the old needle gun is better in some instances? Or the old bone saw? They are flat out upgrades and I have never gone back to the other shitty weapons.
Ubersaw is an straight upgrade i think, but that is not true of the guns. The old needlegun is much more offensive than the bluntslauger......the criticals make all the difference man.
No way. Go up against a pyro with the Needle gun... *if* you crit, you are still going to die from the flames. Back pedaling with the Blaughtsauger (sp?) is pretty much anti Pyro. They hardly ever kill me if I have the littlest room to back up in. Staying a live longer always beats crits imo. Same against other classes also, the crits dont do hardly enough damage to come close to going up against a heavy. Here with the health regen you can stay alive long enough to not need to rely on crits. With crits you can hit with about 6 needles and kill someone. It does make a big difference, maybe not in your situation of being able to hit with every needle then obviously the new one is better. The ubersaw was a strong upgrade, a little atkspeed was nothing but ok Melee may not be as big as a deal as say.. your primary weapon??
With the old needlegun ive been able to kill straight up 300 health heavies before they can rev their gun with crits. Can you honestly say that with the new needlegun you can do that without crits? The 3 health take is going to outlast? Nope. It's all situational.
Giller, thanks for catchin my point. You can't say the flaregun is a flat out upgrade right? Nope. I play medic a lot. How often do you really get crit rounds on your needle gun? Can you do 300 damage to the heavy before he starts spinning if you dont have crit needles? I think not. Where the regen helps all the time. You are going to say that a weapon that only has a % chance of being decent over a gun that is effective all the time is the better or even situational? ooook. The new needlegun didn't change the role of a medic. Can you honestly say now that you regen health every shot you aren't needed as a healing class anymore because you are just as viable to your team as a killing class? No, medics are still in their role of being most effective as a healing role. Pretty much unbalancing valve's system of flaws/strengths to the individual player and team. Every class also has its role. They designed pyro to be most effective as an ambush class (thats why the BB crits from the BACK right?) The health they implemented changed a pyro's role. Their role was diminished. Pyros no longer needed to ambush. They were not limited to this role in order to be most effective at its class. Anyone could play a class however they want out of the role valve gave them (Non defensive demo, a nonhealing medic) Just they won't be very ...helpful.
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Ok its always been the case in tf2, tfc and TF, the more health you have, the slower you go. With the 50hp of the BB the pyro moved faster than a demo and had more health than a soldier. How is that balanced at all? And pyros all got a huge upgrade with the pyro update, it just wasnt an unlockable. The airblast, can anyone make a point that its not useful? nope you cant. Now things are more balanced. The pyro is still WAY more powerfull than he was before the update, demos and soldiers are less powerfull. And actually now pyros get more points if someone blows themselves up while onfire.
Pyros. They shout and curse. Stabbing wildly. More brawlers than warriors. They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs.
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When talking about roles, lets not forget that the pyro is intended to be offense, which is largely at odds with the idea of them being designed purely for ambushing- a primarily defensive tactic. Sure he had more health than a soldier with the +50 bonus, but he also can't attack at the kind of range a soldier a can. A pyro is much more at risk of direct rocket, other pyro flames, full shotgun blasts, direct pipe bomb hits, damage from miniguns, and even melee weapons! To account for that close range and be as viable for offense as a soldier, he needs more speed and health.
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SNoB wrote:Ok its always been the case in tf2, tfc and TF, the more health you have, the slower you go. With the 50hp of the BB the pyro moved faster than a demo and had more health than a soldier. How is that balanced at all? And pyros all got a huge upgrade with the pyro update, it just wasnt an unlockable. The airblast, can anyone make a point that its not useful? nope you cant. Now things are more balanced. The pyro is still WAY more powerfull than he was before the update, demos and soldiers are less powerfull. And actually now pyros get more points if someone blows themselves up while onfire. In TFC the pyro also had a long-range rocket-like weapon. Him being reduced to only close-range combat changes the recipe from that of TFC. I can't speak of TF since I never played it.
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Rikaelus wrote:When talking about roles, lets not forget that the pyro is intended to be offense, which is largely at odds with the idea of them being designed purely for ambushing- a primarily defensive tactic. Sure he had more health than a soldier with the +50 bonus, but he also can't attack at the kind of range a soldier a can. A pyro is much more at risk of direct rocket, other pyro flames, full shotgun blasts, direct pipe bomb hits, damage from miniguns, and even melee weapons! To account for that close range and be as viable for offense as a soldier, he needs more speed and health. Back to roles. A pyro isn't supposed to be played offensively the same way as a soldier. Therefore his speed is his advantage to survival while the soldiers health is his advantage. His role is not to attack at the kind of range a soldier can. His role is not to take hits like a soldier. His role is not to be played like a soldier. If it was, then why make two separate classes meant to do the same exact thing? Get my drift?
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Rikaelus wrote:SNoB wrote:Ok its always been the case in tf2, tfc and TF, the more health you have, the slower you go. With the 50hp of the BB the pyro moved faster than a demo and had more health than a soldier. How is that balanced at all? And pyros all got a huge upgrade with the pyro update, it just wasnt an unlockable. The airblast, can anyone make a point that its not useful? nope you cant. Now things are more balanced. The pyro is still WAY more powerfull than he was before the update, demos and soldiers are less powerfull. And actually now pyros get more points if someone blows themselves up while onfire. In TFC the pyro also had a long-range rocket-like weapon. Him being reduced to only close-range combat changes the recipe from that of TFC. I can't speak of TF since I never played it. He also had the same weapon in TF, they had a limited amo supply, all it did was like what the flare gun does now. Light a sniper on fire to annoy the S out of him. I dont remember many people getting kills with the pyro rocket at all. Like daniel said, the extra speed is what keeps him alive. If you use the same logic you could say a scout should have 300 hp because he is ment to run in and grab the flag, so therefore he needs more hp than a heavy because the scatter gun only works well up close. Its a stupid argument.
Pyros. They shout and curse. Stabbing wildly. More brawlers than warriors. They make a wondrous mess of things. Brave amateurs.
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Snob, you smart mother fucker :)
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All i know is that pyro's are a better class after the patch. As a soldier..i used to just laugh anytime a pyro tried to actually fight me. Now they are much more of a threat with the speed and increased range....flare gun is really annoying too...doesnt ever kill me..but forces my retreat for health and effectively halts an offensive push.
Pyros have always been defensive primary, and semi offensive...Dunno where this "designed to be offensive" stuff is coming from....I can cite gabe newell if i have to.
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Giller [GwDR wrote:Pyros have always been defensive primary, and semi offensive...Dunno where this "designed to be offensive" stuff is coming from....I can cite gabe newell if i have to. I can do you one better! HolyJaw wrote:In the end, everything Endyss said.
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