Alright this is beyond ridiculous and dont feed me the bullshit that you all picked random. If you all randomed onto the same team you need to be playing the fucking lottery. Again stop stacking against pub players. You shouldnt feel good about rolling noobs. Its not cool. If you want to play together go play against Team HOT or 20ID. You'll know what it feels like to be a poor regular pub player playing against players exponentially better than them.

Again not for myself but for the sake of the servers please dont stack teams. Please note that this was taken at the beginning of the round and that rollage quickly occured.

AND the map befor this one the team was stacked for the red team what team where you on?

I'm not trying to be holier than thou here I'm merely stating that many times I see the same people playing with each other. (Haha....)

We can't prevent people from playing with their friends but I do think that the skilled players who are regulars (not neccessarily PDS'ers I forgot to mention that in my first post) are more often than not playing on the same side. I've been playing on the tempests long enough to realize when all the better players are stacked on one team and Im astute enough to realize that this happens quite often. Personally I don't care who plays for whom I just feel that somebody wandering into the server would feel totally overwhelmed and may not revisit the servers getting into a situation like this.

We're all intelligent people here. You all know who the better players are who regular the tempest so when you see one team stacked with decent players and the other team not so much,  bite the bullet and go on the other team.

The map before this also Murdy was science. I joined right at the end of it when everyone was calling for a map switch. I was also the first person loaded into Warpath so I saw the other team get stacked with many of the better players.

Edit: Clanstacking is not really the issue, as the title of the thread clearly states. We are as WDF puts it a community made up of a variety of different players so its not a clanstacking issue. It's an issue of all the skilled regulars frequently stacked up against those who don't play as much or aren't as skilled.

Didn't Whut himself do away with the clan stacking rule all together?

Megalomania

I think Whut put in a scamble team option now too. Not sure if it works, haven't tried it, but that would fix this? /shrug.

Thinking I see a couple admins -- even one on RED team -- that you could ask for a scramble? I dunno. Going back to watching fauxnews!

This has gone far enough and needs swift resolution.  The following is the judgment of the Administrative Appellate Court (as opposed to the Supreme Court of Whut):

There was no misconduct here.

Clan Stacking
Clan stacking is not a good thing in a general sense, but for a specific reason, and not that one side on a map consistently wins.  That aspect is irrelevant.  The salient elements of clan stacking as a negative are two-fold:

1. All or an overwhelming majority of players of the same clan (as indicated by their tag) playing on one team and unbalancing the game overall...
2. ...which creates the perception among unfamiliar players that the sides are unfairly stacked.

While Server Admins should not permit egregious clan stacking from any group on the servers, the most detrimental form of this conduct is when done by members of {pDs}, since that clan is so closely affiliated with the Tempest servers.  It is the most frequently seen clan on the servers, and ads to join the clan are even broadcast along with other server-related messages in-game.  A clear case of clan stacking by {pDs} has the potential to not only imbalance a single game, it can negatively impact newcomers' opinion of the servers overall.

In my opinion, clan stacking should be more clearly defined.  Since it is a ratio-based imbalance of clan members (five on one team and none on the other would be 5:0; two on each side would be 1:1), it would not be extremely difficult to set a threshold ratio after which Server Admins should begin demanding some players change teams.  A slightly more stringent ratio might be appropriate for clan {pDs} specifically, for the perceptual reason stated above, but also since they can be made aware of the rules, and many of them are Server Admins already.  I believe a ratio of 5:1 for {pDs} and 6:1 for all other clans is appropriate (or 5:0 and 6:0, respectively, if there are no members of that clan on the opposing team).  These numbers may seem high, but this is the point at which corrective action should be initiated.  In a 5:1 instance, one player changing teams would immediately bring the ratio down to 4:2, which pares down to 2:1 at its lowest common denominator.  The relatively high threshold also continues to respect Whut's desire that clan stacking should be more of a guideline while providing Server Admins with a clear rule to enforce.  This will be the new rule on Tempest servers, unless it should be "overturned" by Whut.  We decline today to consider the question of whether incidents of clan stacking could be remedied by offending players changing their names, whether dropping their clan tag or changing their names entirely, but it is something to consider in the future.

All that being said, in this case we need not even reach such a conclusion for both reasons of set precedent (stare decisis for you in the legal world), as well as failure to state a case here.  In terms of set precedent, Whut has said fairly authoritatively that the entire notion of clan stacking is "more of a guideline now."  Source.  Thus, for anything but the clearest and most server-killing incidents of clan stacking, corrective action is completely optional at best.  At worst, Whut meant to do away with any former rules on clan stacking, in which case this complaint should have been better addressed as an appeal to "bring back rules against clan stacking," not an indignant rant demanding the enforcement of a rule that doesn't exist.  In that light, DarkIllumina's complaint has had a corrective effect, but more out of a need for a more well-defined rule on clan stacking than any conduct in this particular case.

Secondly, even under the new rule scheme, the ratio in this case of 5:2, paring down to 2.5:1, would not demand any corrective action.

"Community Stacking"
DarkIllumina mentioned in another post that the issue he meant to raise had less to do with clan stacking and more to do with skilled regular players than an imbalance of any clan numbers.  This notion of "community stacking" runs counter to both reality in the game and the community policy this site wishes to promote.

Players come in all skill levels, regardless of their frequency of appearance on Tempest servers.  There are plenty of skilled players in our community, as well as many less skilled players.  The same is true among people who have never been to the servers.  There is nothing to stop an excellent player from joining our server and, while he would be a complete newcomer, his skill level would far exceed many regulars that have been part of the community for a long time.  The argument could be raised that a team of unaffiliated newcomers might be considerably less organized than a team of community regulars, but this too would fail.  Efforts by the community to organize have been relatively minimal, especially lately, and there is nothing outside of possible familiarity with another player's play style or class preferences that gives community players a clear advantage.

More seriously damning to this line of thinking is the perceptual and psychological effects a rule against "community stacking" would bring, both inside and outside of the community.  Inside the community, when we are on the Tempest servers, we are usually there to play with our friends from the forums.  This has the cyclical effect of fostering even more community spirit (how many threads have there been just discussing someone's, such as Bendy's, conduct in the game?).  We want community regulars to play together on the Tempest servers.  In a time when overall server populations are relatively high, but community spirit to go out and play the game is comparatively low, this is something we want to go out of our way to encourage.  A nebulous concept of "community stacking" would do the opposite.

In addition, such a rule would also be all but unenforceable.  While traditional clan stacking ultimately boils down to a clearly defined numbers game, this concept would set at the feet of Server Admins the unenviable task of answering questions such as:

• How long has each potentially stacking player been in the community?  Is that long enough to call them a "regular?"
  
• How skilled is each potentially stacking player, and are they skilled enough to add into the community stacking calculation?
• Is the ratio for skilled regulars the same as clan stacking?
• How do Server Admins carry out enforcement in case of a violation?  In traditional clan stacking, they can call for "Someone from {pDs} to switch teams" to balance.  With community stacking, would they list out all the regulars to the server, branding them as rule violators for the rest of the server watching, and demand one or more of them change teams?
• Do Server Admins then begin kicking our own regular community members out of our servers if they disagree with the admin's judgment or refuse to comply?

Finally, "community stacking" does not carry with it any of the negative external perceptual stigma associated with traditional clan stacking -- namely that unfamiliar players will perceive a disadvantage.  Regardless of how the rounds play out, it is considerably less likely that new players will associate the results with a skill imbalance in favor of community regulars.  Much more likely, they will either leave (ultimately forcing some of those regulars to change teams anyway) or change teams themselves, further diluting any "community stacking" that may have occurred.


In summary, clan stacking is not of high enforcement priority, but there should be some kind of upper limit in extreme cases.  From now on, this will be a 5:1/5:0 ratio for clan {pDs} and 6:1/6:0 for all other clans.  However, there is no such thing as community stacking, and no attempt to balance skill levels and community regularity on the Tempest servers will take place.


((btw, this is the closest I've ever come on the forums to a legal-sounding post addressing an problem.  Please (politely, if you are capable) let me know if you find the style worthy in thoroughly dealing with all the issues, or... not))

Most of the {pDs} people are dead on your screen shot.

NO DEAD CLAN STACKING!  IF I SEE ANYMORE DEAD PEOPLE STACKING ON A TEAM I QUIT!