Poll Question : Would you join an armed revolution on the US govt?
Choice Votes Statistics
Yes 12 48 %
No 13 52 %

4 Pages <1234>
Revolution Options
Business
#31 Posted: : Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:01:05 AM
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Lead Salad wrote:


That's what Zapata said


Mejor morir a pie que vivir en rodillas

Lead Salad wrote:


Give credit where credit is due


No.


You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
RichardAwesome
#32 Posted: : Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:11:47 PM
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endyss wrote:
Giller [GwDR wrote:
What kind of government would they set up?  They would claim they are improving teh constitution, but really it would just be a power grab.  How else can you explain a quick military coup solution, when the current government allowed for the exact same change via peaceful change.

The current government allows for peaceful change within the constraints the current system has already set up.  My point was that the entrenched interests of current system effectively prevent new voices with the kind of radical change that we're going to need from standing up and gaining any traction.  But you're right, the way things are going, eventually the government is going to become so bankrupt, our currency so devalued, that someone will come along and call for real change.  Maybe it'll be good change that strengthens the limits government power, maybe it will be another civil war with some states trying to cede, maybe it'll be someone who promises an empty and unexplained, but idealistically appealing, message of "Change" and sweeps into power.

I can't see the concept of a military coup being that much more volatile.  After all, we did it before pretty successfully.


Or the people are content.
Rikaelus
#33 Posted: : Thursday, October 09, 2008 6:26:21 PM
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Business wrote:
I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees :)


You are on your knees. You're just brainwashed by society not to realize it.

RichardAwesome wrote:
endyss wrote:

I can't see the concept of a military coup being that much more volatile.  After all, we did it before pretty successfully.


Or the people are content.


Or the people are lazy because we're a consumer society that's attracted to shiny things.
Or the people are distracted because our way of life requires more and more effort to earn smaller and smaller rewards.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774.

Though I may lack a "distinguished period" to point to, the manner in which we live our lives I sincerely believe is both unsustainable and doomed to make our voices as silent as those under any totalitarian regime.

On one side you have those that are fairly well to do and have plenty of toys. The toys keep them happy and they'd rather not take on the burden of looking beneath the surface of the society that offered them their shiny trinkets. On the other side you have those that are so busy working to provide food to their children that the last thing they want to do is invest time into researching the current state of things.

In either case you have a sort of tunnel-vision; people not wanting to think about the problems we face, let alone act to help fix them. Sure they may go out and vote while the campaign tides are pushing them around, but most will vote ignorantly or based on materialistic reasons. As interesting as our upcoming election may be, it equal-parts disgusts and saddens me to think how many will vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman, or vote for Obama simply because he's black. Democracy doesn't simply require people to vote to be effective - it requires a level of awareness and intelligence that is simply lacking in our society. To those who would vote ignorantly I can only say "Mooooooo-ve out of the country, cattle."

But then even the best efforts to vote intelligently are undermined by the very country they're trying to take part in. Now, I'm smart enough to recognize a party line and a catch phrase when I hear one. And frankly both Obama and McCain are disgusting me in that regard, though at least Obama goes into some level of detail as to how he plans to make things happen. Do people really fall for the party lines? They're blatantely apparant to me but others must fall for them for the campaigns to think them still usable. If there are such people I'm not sure whether to pity them or beat them to death.

Meanwhile we have an increasibly horrible education system. We have news channels that are transparent in their bias, which just happen to be owned by corporations who have a vested interest in a political party. We have a "higher" education system that puts people instantly in debt without making them truly competitive in the workplace. We have cellphones and laptops keeping us constantly wired to our jobs, making it near-impossible to give our children the time they not only deserve, but require. And we have people in power who, if they seek more power, have it in their own interest to keep us lazy, distracted, and ignorant.

Whether you see the United States for its republic or its democracy, the government will only work as intended if the primary power is with the people. They are the ones who vote in a democracy. They are the ones who vote for their congressmen and senators. But this has been corrupted. Our democratic vote for presidents is intercepted, generalized, and even distorted by the Electoral College. Our "representatives" have more reason to listen to their party and special interest groups than their own constituents. Most of all, our votes are manipulated and coerced by the media, our economy, and effectively every facet of our society. In short, we're being oppressed. It's simply being done by a force with no one name. Our power is taken from us while we're told by no one voice that our liberties are secure. We're sold the illusion of a pure, strong nation while the foundation of what was a pure, strong nation continues to crumble at our feet.

"The generation which commences a revolution rarely complete it. Habituated from their infancy to passive submission of body and mind to their kings and priests, they are not qualified when called on to think and provide for themselves; and their inexperience, their ignorance and bigotry make them instruments often in the hands of the Bonapartes and Iturbides to defeat their own rights and purposes." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1823.



Brosnan
#34 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 12:16:35 AM
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Rikaelus wrote:
WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS


Do people really read these posts?
Lead Salad
#35 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 12:42:07 AM
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Brosnan wrote:
Rikaelus wrote:
WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS


Do people really read these posts?


Yes.
Business
#36 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 2:16:44 AM
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Rikaelus wrote:
Business wrote:
I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees :)


You are on your knees. You're just brainwashed by society not to realize it.



thats worth a lol. We aren't there yet, but it won't be too long.
You wanna take this to Fuck Town?
Oh gadzooks, yes!
Frostbite
#37 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 7:34:01 AM
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Depends on the benifits , Can i loot and pillage ?
it doesn't change the fact that most people think Jews are much like the Ferengi of Star Trek. More interested in acquiring "profits" than anything else. -Erkdog

Shut the fuck up Frostbite, I know what i am doing i been playing TF2 for 8 fucking years i know how to run my damn servers-Erkdog

More pearls from Erkdog
I say we let him back on the forums.
lol epic
endyss
#38 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 9:32:31 AM
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Brosnan wrote:
Rikaelus wrote:
WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS WORDS


Do people really read these posts?

Yeah, I do.  Very well written post, Rik.


HolyJaw wrote:
In the end, everything Endyss said.


Giller [GwDR]
#39 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 10:29:13 AM
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Very well written.....In this same note, I will suggest another reading that compliments his Angst.

Karl Marx - A communist manifesto.

I too think we are a shameless, consumer driven society rotting at its core.  That's why I am now OFFICially advocating we all burn our computers, drown all non-working class pets, cast our cellphones into the abyss, and shed our designer clothes.  My plan also includes that we each are issued one bullet, and one gun...to do with as we please.  We are, afterall, our own worst enemy.  


Quote:

"Who the fuck is Leon Switch and why does he know we have a dog?" - Mrs. Giller
Rikaelus
#40 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 12:38:38 PM
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Business wrote:
Rikaelus wrote:
Business wrote:
I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees :)


You are on your knees. You're just brainwashed by society not to realize it.



thats worth a lol. We aren't there yet, but it won't be too long.


Perhaps we're not quite to the extreme I implied, but it's one of those things that we may one day look back on and ask, "When the hell did this happen?".

Giller [GwDR wrote:
]

Very well written.....In this same note, I will suggest another reading that compliments his Angst.

Karl Marx - A communist manifesto.

I too think we are a shameless, consumer driven society rotting at its core.  That's why I am now OFFICially advocating we all burn our computers, drown all non-working class pets, cast our cellphones into the abyss, and shed our designer clothes.  My plan also includes that we each are issued one bullet, and one gun...to do with as we please.  We are, afterall, our own worst enemy.  



Well I wouldn't go quite to that extreme, but I do believe that designer clothes and cellphones represent some aspects of our society that need to radically change, and then the former moreso than the latter.

RichardAwesome
#41 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 1:31:23 PM
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Rikaelus wrote:
Business wrote:
I would rather die on my feet then live on my knees :)


You are on your knees. You're just brainwashed by society not to realize it.

RichardAwesome wrote:
endyss wrote:

I can't see the concept of a military coup being that much more volatile.  After all, we did it before pretty successfully.


Or the people are content.


Or the people are lazy because we're a consumer society that's attracted to shiny things.
Or the people are distracted because our way of life requires more and more effort to earn smaller and smaller rewards.

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing [a people] to slavery." --Thomas Jefferson: Rights of British America, 1774.

Though I may lack a "distinguished period" to point to, the manner in which we live our lives I sincerely believe is both unsustainable and doomed to make our voices as silent as those under any totalitarian regime.

On one side you have those that are fairly well to do and have plenty of toys. The toys keep them happy and they'd rather not take on the burden of looking beneath the surface of the society that offered them their shiny trinkets. On the other side you have those that are so busy working to provide food to their children that the last thing they want to do is invest time into researching the current state of things.

In either case you have a sort of tunnel-vision; people not wanting to think about the problems we face, let alone act to help fix them. Sure they may go out and vote while the campaign tides are pushing them around, but most will vote ignorantly or based on materialistic reasons. As interesting as our upcoming election may be, it equal-parts disgusts and saddens me to think how many will vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman, or vote for Obama simply because he's black. Democracy doesn't simply require people to vote to be effective - it requires a level of awareness and intelligence that is simply lacking in our society. To those who would vote ignorantly I can only say "Mooooooo-ve out of the country, cattle."

But then even the best efforts to vote intelligently are undermined by the very country they're trying to take part in. Now, I'm smart enough to recognize a party line and a catch phrase when I hear one. And frankly both Obama and McCain are disgusting me in that regard, though at least Obama goes into some level of detail as to how he plans to make things happen. Do people really fall for the party lines? They're blatantely apparant to me but others must fall for them for the campaigns to think them still usable. If there are such people I'm not sure whether to pity them or beat them to death.

Meanwhile we have an increasibly horrible education system. We have news channels that are transparent in their bias, which just happen to be owned by corporations who have a vested interest in a political party. We have a "higher" education system that puts people instantly in debt without making them truly competitive in the workplace. We have cellphones and laptops keeping us constantly wired to our jobs, making it near-impossible to give our children the time they not only deserve, but require. And we have people in power who, if they seek more power, have it in their own interest to keep us lazy, distracted, and ignorant.

Whether you see the United States for its republic or its democracy, the government will only work as intended if the primary power is with the people. They are the ones who vote in a democracy. They are the ones who vote for their congressmen and senators. But this has been corrupted. Our democratic vote for presidents is intercepted, generalized, and even distorted by the Electoral College. Our "representatives" have more reason to listen to their party and special interest groups than their own constituents. Most of all, our votes are manipulated and coerced by the media, our economy, and effectively every facet of our society. In short, we're being oppressed. It's simply being done by a force with no one name. Our power is taken from us while we're told by no one voice that our liberties are secure. We're sold the illusion of a pure, strong nation while the foundation of what was a pure, strong nation continues to crumble at our feet.

"The generation which commences a revolution rarely complete it. Habituated from their infancy to passive submission of body and mind to their kings and priests, they are not qualified when called on to think and provide for themselves; and their inexperience, their ignorance and bigotry make them instruments often in the hands of the Bonapartes and Iturbides to defeat their own rights and purposes." --Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1823.




The people are also the ones that want the government to do everything for them.  This is what the people want.  The people are the ones that continue to put these politicians in office.

Frankly, we deserve exactly what we're getting.
Rikaelus
#42 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 2:37:18 PM
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RichardAwesome wrote:
The people are also the ones that want the government to do everything for them.  This is what the people want.  The people are the ones that continue to put these politicians in office.

Frankly, we deserve exactly what we're getting.


Sadly that does indeed seem to be the case. The American people as a whole have allowed society to change such that participation in the government is of minimal concern. Along the way, at a slow pace, the people have allowed their voices to be silenced and their power taken. So on one hand I agree; we get what we deserve. With the other hand I cling to an ever-diminishing ray of hope that things may improve. Even though I doubt any of our candidates can flip things around quickly, I did inherently support Obama because I believe his youth and optimism will at least shake things up a little bit; and that same youth and optimism may - just may - get the kind of people involved in politics that actually know how to use the mushy thing sitting in their skulls.

"[It is] the people, to whom all authority belongs."
--Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1821.

RichardAwesome
#43 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 3:00:00 PM
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Rikaelus wrote:
RichardAwesome wrote:
The people are also the ones that want the government to do everything for them.  This is what the people want.  The people are the ones that continue to put these politicians in office.

Frankly, we deserve exactly what we're getting.


Sadly that does indeed seem to be the case. The American people as a whole have allowed society to change such that participation in the government is of minimal concern. Along the way, at a slow pace, the people have allowed their voices to be silenced and their power taken. So on one hand I agree; we get what we deserve. With the other hand I cling to an ever-diminishing ray of hope that things may improve. Even though I doubt any of our candidates can flip things around quickly, I did inherently support Obama because I believe his youth and optimism will at least shake things up a little bit; and that same youth and optimism may - just may - get the kind of people involved in politics that actually know how to use the mushy thing sitting in their skulls.

"[It is] the people, to whom all authority belongs."
--Thomas Jefferson to Spencer Roane, 1821.


So silenced, you're sitting here on an internet forum voicing your opinion.
Rikaelus
#44 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 3:39:32 PM
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RichardAwesome wrote:
So silenced, you're sitting here on an internet forum voicing your opinion.


I use to run a political discussion site, actually.

There's a big difference between freedom of social speech and having a "voice" in the government by way of voting. But even socially, there are powers that keep us quiet - not silenced, perhaps, but quiet. For instance, who's likely to be more noticed: me posting here, or a millionaire or corporation buying airtime for a commercial to express their views? And in a way the internet has actually worked against social free speech; the web is so saturated by people expressing their views that it ends up as a huge ball of static where individual views are paid little attention to.

RichardAwesome
#45 Posted: : Friday, October 10, 2008 4:31:09 PM
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Rikaelus wrote:
RichardAwesome wrote:
So silenced, you're sitting here on an internet forum voicing your opinion.


I use to run a political discussion site, actually.

There's a big difference between freedom of social speech and having a "voice" in the government by way of voting. But even socially, there are powers that keep us quiet - not silenced, perhaps, but quiet. For instance, who's likely to be more noticed: me posting here, or a millionaire or corporation buying airtime for a commercial to express their views? And in a way the internet has actually worked against social free speech; the web is so saturated by people expressing their views that it ends up as a huge ball of static where individual views are paid little attention to.


It's called liberty.  Doesn't make it fair.  Fair isn't liberty.
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